128 replies to this topic

[Tsunami]

Just watched the secret endings online, since it's been taking me too long to get all A's in every quest (that is the requirement for the special endings, no?)

Spoiler

asdaklsdaksd AUGH that broke me way more than it should have. Probably because the entire game was a cute, somewhat uplifting romp... and then they killed NiGHTS. Wrrrryyyy?! I mean, I do interpret the ending (with the Hope ideya and clocktower and all) to mean that NiGHTS lives on in some way, shape, or form, but dangit, sad scene. NiGHTS fading away = do not want! I was hoping for a happier ending more akin to NiD, where there was no implication that NiGHTS bit the dust.

Huh. Wonder what happened to Reala, since you don't see what happened to him after the final blow in the boss fight. Alas, he is probably dead too.

Now I will take my broken brain and go to bed.

[DylanJohn]

Just watched the secret endings online, since it's been taking me too long to get all A's in every quest (that is the requirement for the special endings, no?)

Nope, it's not. You only need Cs across the board for both kids, then go do the last stage a second time.

[Tsunami]

Nope, it's not. You only need Cs across the board for both kids, then go do the last stage a second time.

Really? I tried this and got nothing, not even the

Spoiler

second Reala fight.

Do I have to play the end through again as both children? The first time I beat Wizeman, I had all C's or above except for one D on a Will level. I went back, fixed that so everything was C and greater, then played through the end as Helen... and no change. No Reala, no special ending. Do I need to play the last level once again as Will, too?

[DylanJohn]

Once you've got all Cs with both kids, and beaten Wizeman once with each of them, you should get the extended sequence the next time you head to Bellbridge. It needs to be your second (or more) time as that particular child.

[Sweep]

Yeah you need to get C's or higher with both of them.

Gah, I gotta say, It's almost four in the morning but I beat it just now. I cried. I sware, I did. Specially that thing with Helen and her Mom at the end.

Spoiler

When NiGHTS died, I began to freak out because I knew the instant Wizeman said, 'I created Nightmare,' where it was headed. And I also thought it was Sega telling us to leave them alone. XD But I think NiGHTS being on the tower at the end and Wizeman's speech about darkness in humans hearts gave a lot of doubt to that theory as well as hope towards the idea of a third NiGHTS game.

God, I'm so lazy around here. :P

[Maresuke]

Yeah you need to get C's or higher with both of them.

Gah, I gotta say, It's almost four in the morning but I beat it just now. I cried. I sware, I did. Specially that thing with Helen and her Mom at the end.

Spoiler

When NiGHTS died, I began to freak out because I knew the instant Wizeman said, 'I created Nightmare,' where it was headed. And I also thought it was Sega telling us to leave them alone. XD But I think NiGHTS being on the tower at the end and Wizeman's speech about darkness in humans hearts gave a lot of doubt to that theory as well as hope towards the idea of a third NiGHTS game.

God, I'm so lazy around here.

Spoiler

Or maybe he has already been re-drempt. lol

[spinningcannon]

All right, these may be total wishful thinking on my part, or they may be totally viable possibilities. You guys decide.

Spoiler

First off, I couldn't help but notice that the light when NiGHTS "dies" starts to resemble snow as it fades. You know, when it falls onto the kids? I think this is significant because it's the last time the two are together in their dreams... and when they finally meet in the Waking, what happens? It starts to snow. I couldn't help but notice the striking similarities.

My biggest hope also lies in that situation. After NiGHTS disappeared, the kids left the Dreaming.
Maybe that "death" was simply NiGHTS leaving them, as they woke up?...

Secondly, about the lights crashing out. Now, that happens during "Dreams Dreams," AND immediately after Will seems to remember what it is. I think that memory plays a major part in the reason they blinked out. More on that in a second.
Plus, the lights go back on immediately after Helen sees Will, when they meet again. That has got to be significant.

All right, back to my point on the lights going out. What did Wizeman say? "As long as darkness exists in the hearts of humans...then I and the nightmarens will also continue to exist."
I think the very fact that everything crashed into darkness when "Dreams Dreams" started playing (of all things), and the two dreamers who remembered it were there to do so, speaks enough for itself.
That darkness may have showed up to remind us that we're human, the kids are human, and we all have a bit of darkness in our hearts, regardless. That's part of why we're human after all. Fear, anger, sadness... all that "darkness" is a part of what it means to live, however dark it indeed is, and because of that Nightmare can never die. It's just as vital a part of us as our dreams.
When the lights went back on, it was when the two dreamers met, as I said. I think that signifies the flipside... that yes, darkness is a part of us... but so is light. We all have iDEYA, we all have hope, purity, intelligence, wisdom, and courage... but sometimes it's hard for us to realize it. That's where our dreams come in. When Helen and Will met again, that truth was practically personified, and the lights shone again. Dreams cannot die while humanity lives either.

I'm still shaken by what Wizeman said to NiGHTS, though... you know, "You plan to sacrifice yourself to stop me?... If you destroy me, you will be destroying yourself as well." I don't know what to make of that. Any more ideas you kids can give?
But, then again, NiGHTS replies: "I know what I'm doing" and tells the kids "we need to protect your dreams." Maybe Machenstein is right-- maybe NiGHTS was simply reborn as a creature of dreams, instead of one of Nightmares. If he defeated Wizeman and that part of himself was "destroyed", then the dreams of those who believe in him might have "resurrected" him in a better aspect. I don't know.
I don't think Wiz "dies", though. I honestly can't say I can guess what happened to him, but I seriously doubt he's dead.

The reason why I think all this, though, stems from my own personal beliefs on the nature of dreams and those in them... let me elaborate.
I think that the beings in dreams have their own lives and identities, yes, but only continue to live through the dreams and nightmares of we dreamers. For example, if everyone stopped remembering and dreaming of NiGHTS, then he would indeed die, but as long as he remains in our hearts then he lives on. Ditto that point with Wizeman, Reala, and all the other 'Marens. I don't think it's possible for them to die as long as what they were "born" from continues to exist: dreams and nightmares... and we dreamers. Simple as that.

So... nobody died. NiGHTS was on the clock tower at the end of it all, you know.
He lives on!

Did anyone else notice that the clock begins to ring when the lights go out? What do you think of that?
Also curious, does it strike 3 times or am I just deaf?
Lastly, when NiGHTS is on the clocktower at the end, it says 2AM. Any significance to that?

All ideas, criticism, bursts of inspiration and arguments of logic are highly appreciated...!

[Rily]

All right, these may be total wishful thinking on my part, or they may be totally viable possibilities. You guys decide.

Spoiler

First off, I couldn't help but notice that the light when NiGHTS "dies" starts to resemble snow as it fades. You know, when it falls onto the kids? I think this is significant because it's the last time the two are together in their dreams... and when they finally meet in the Waking, what happens? It starts to snow. I couldn't help but notice the striking similarities.

My biggest hope also lies in that situation. After NiGHTS disappeared, the kids left the Dreaming.
Maybe that "death" was simply NiGHTS leaving them, as they woke up?...

Secondly, about the lights crashing out. Now, that happens during "Dreams Dreams," AND immediately after Will seems to remember what it is. I think that memory plays a major part in the reason they blinked out. More on that in a second.
Plus, the lights go back on immediately after Helen sees Will, when they meet again. That has got to be significant.

All right, back to my point on the lights going out. What did Wizeman say? "As long as darkness exists in the hearts of humans...then I and the nightmarens will also continue to exist."
I think the very fact that everything crashed into darkness when "Dreams Dreams" started playing (of all things), and the two dreamers who remembered it were there to do so, speaks enough for itself.
That darkness may have showed up to remind us that we're human, the kids are human, and we all have a bit of darkness in our hearts, regardless. That's part of why we're human after all. Fear, anger, sadness... all that "darkness" is a part of what it means to live, however dark it indeed is, and because of that Nightmare can never die. It's just as vital a part of us as our dreams.
When the lights went back on, it was when the two dreamers met, as I said. I think that signifies the flipside... that yes, darkness is a part of us... but so is light. We all have iDEYA, we all have hope, purity, intelligence, wisdom, and courage... but sometimes it's hard for us to realize it. That's where our dreams come in. When Helen and Will met again, that truth was practically personified, and the lights shone again. Dreams cannot die while humanity lives either.

I'm still shaken by what Wizeman said to NiGHTS, though... you know, "You plan to sacrifice yourself to stop me?... If you destroy me, you will be destroying yourself as well." I don't know what to make of that. Any more ideas you kids can give?
But, then again, NiGHTS replies: "I know what I'm doing" and tells the kids "we need to protect your dreams." Maybe Machenstein is right-- maybe NiGHTS was simply reborn as a creature of dreams, instead of one of Nightmares. If he defeated Wizeman and that part of himself was "destroyed", then the dreams of those who believe in him might have "resurrected" him in a better aspect. I don't know.
I don't think Wiz "dies", though. I honestly can't say I can guess what happened to him, but I seriously doubt he's dead.

The reason why I think all this, though, stems from my own personal beliefs on the nature of dreams and those in them... let me elaborate.
I think that the beings in dreams have their own lives and identities, yes, but only continue to live through the dreams and nightmares of we dreamers. For example, if everyone stopped remembering and dreaming of NiGHTS, then he would indeed die, but as long as he remains in our hearts then he lives on. Ditto that point with Wizeman, Reala, and all the other 'Marens. I don't think it's possible for them to die as long as what they were "born" from continues to exist: dreams and nightmares... and we dreamers. Simple as that.

So... nobody died. NiGHTS was on the clock tower at the end of it all, you know.
He lives on!

Did anyone else notice that the clock begins to ring when the lights go out? What do you think of that?
Also curious, does it strike 3 times or am I just deaf?
Lastly, when NiGHTS is on the clocktower at the end, it says 2AM. Any significance to that?

Very interesting points...I agree with the

Spoiler

nobody dies

part.

Spoiler

Since everyone does indeed have darkness inside of them, nightmares can never die. Therefore Wizeman can never die. So NiGHTS can't die because Wizeman can't die. Also, just to touch on what someone else said (completely unrelated to the quote up there), whatever DID happen to Reala? He just kind of dissappeared after the second battle with him. If he's still alive, then again that means that no one's dead. So I guess the point is that I agree with spinningcannon; no one died.

[Kori]

Great theories, spinningcannon! What I'd like to elaborate on is

Spoiler

your query about the Bellbridge Tower NiGHTS stands on at the end. In another topic (and I may copy this over), I've been looking into various dream signs appearing throughout the game and their possible meanings, based on a book I just purchased. The interpretations are kinda... well, let's just say that Sega done their research! XD

Bell - warning; signal; calling for attention; summons; rejoicing; signal that someone has died.

Dark - what is unknown; not defined by the intellect or conscious self; things you are unaware of, etc.

So perhaps the bell is signaling a change that Will and Helen have yet to discover... like the fact that Nightmare's still around, and thus, NiGHTS is still alive! As for the time...

Hours of the day - may refer to age; period of life; something that happens at that time.

The number two - duality; relationship; indecision or making a decision; balance; male and female; opposites, such as light and dark, harmony or conflict.

Looks to me like 2 fits our beloved Maren to a tee! X3 I'm wondering if the actual time could refer to the average time when dreamers, with regular hours of sleep, begin dreaming the deepest? Or simply pointing out that this is a sequel? LOL

Let's keep elaborating, this is fun!

[C-Puff]

Just saw the end scene for both Will and Helen and, although I am brand spanking new to NiGHTS in all aspects I hope this means I can give something of a "fresh" opinion.

Firstly, I want to say that although the ending tore my heart out (And I'm not even a fangirl yet XDD but I am slowly turning into one and that ending did nothing to stop that) Anyway, although the ending was wonderfully sad and the game is insanely fun to play... there are a lot of technical faults with it. (Just hear me out, I'm not flaming the game, just read on)
Firstly Helen's voice acting is... ..terrible. I'm sorry there's no other word for it. Secondly, here and there I feel that some-one in change of the main idea of the game knew what they were doing but by the time that part of the project was handed down the hierarchy at the studio the subordinates didn't really "get it" as such. So they tried to do what they THOUGHT was expected and right along the lines of "We are making a kiddies' game ahur 8B" and lost the plot of the bigger dream if you will of what NiGHTS actually is. It's a very deep, meaningful concept. It is simple, and not completely clear, and vague, and sad and beautiful and it purposefully tells us very little so that we can see more of ourselves in it and less of the creators which is why NiGHTS is such a personal game and why it strikes such a deep chord with its fans. But those handling the nitty gritty parts of it, voice acting, motion capture, Cut scene animation etc, were confused by this. "We're making a game about two children who meet a strange creature and have to save Nightopia but... they're not GIVING US ENOUGH. ...oh well. it's just a kiddy game after all. We don't need to be very specific. Kids don't think after all"
And so a lot of this gets a little lost here and there in the game in some places. It's like the larger dream is butting heads with those who are, sadly, narrow minded and only seeing that they are making a game for what they think are a children audience.
Because of this some things were not interpreted right from the bigger dream.

Spoiler

I think NiGHTS' death is probably one of the victims of this.

I feel NiGHTS' death was not a death at all, at least it was not meant to be so in the bigger dream. (forgive me, I typed that once and the name seems to have stuck) I have read all the posts in this thread and I must say I agree with all of them. From what I know that's always what NiGHTS has been about hasn't it? the player's person dreams and hopes that are created from the game. The game merely being a starting point for us to take it where we want it to go. So in a way even though we're all playing the same game... it's completely unique for each person. Anyway I'm getting side-tracked here. 9Forgive me XD;; I'm a bit of an airy fairy person and a ...dreamer hah hah hah )
So, NiGHTS' "death".
As for what the original idea or bigger dream was, it might've been everything said in the previous posts, it might've been left completely open for interpretation by the player, it might've been something wonderful that's purposefully kept from us because we need to prove ourselves worthy of it in completing NiGHTS Journey of Dreams all on As before he will mails us the VIP version "Night: Journey of Dreams Redux" XDDDD
whatever the reason, I think when it was passed down the hierachy the subordinates went "Wait... so we Kill him off?? After all that??" "No no you don't understand, He doesn't DIE" ".....so we leave this bit out?" "NO!! That bit is the whole point of the GAME!!" "....so he dies.... ...alright dude, it's your game *Makes NiGHTS Die and don't notice the subtext and double meaning so do not interperet them right either*"
I am an Animator (in training) and although I'm still a novice I know how a hierachy system in a studio works very well and I know how things can sometimes become lost in translation between the different stages in making a large project. And with NiGHTS being such an inspired concept for ANYTHING not merely a game, I think the narrow minded lower downs were not able to think outside the box they have been working in all their lives.
So when it came to the part where we as gamers play it, we do not really see the exact desired idea as it was meant to be seen. Luckily NiGHTS' concept is strong enough to shine through if we look, but at first glance it can appear to be nothing but black and white, because that is how some of its creators saw it.

So to home down on a single point: I don't think NiGHTS was every meant to be thought of as "dead". I think by the end of the game we were suppose to be reassured that NiGHTS is alive and well, perhaps reborn, perhaps changed, perhaps evolved, perhaps closer than we think, but the way we were meant to learn this was through such subtleties and subtext that, sadly, some of the staff working on the game were unable to grasp them and they were misinterpreted.
Also, In the new Sonic game, Sonic dies as well, but by the end of the game he is revived and comes back to life. I think the guys working at SEGA looked at NiGHTS and thought "Oh, so we're basically doing what we did with Sonic. Except we don't tell them he's actually fine. we just HINT at it so that when we release the third game people will be so hungry for answers they'll line up in droves to buy it"
On the one hand this would be a good situation as it would mean more NiGHTS games XDDD but at the same time it is very sad, as it took something unique and beautiful, and turned into something ugly by putting a dollar/yen/whatever sign in front of it.

NiGHTS was never meant to be seen as gone. He even says so: but it was said wrong. they way it's said in the game makes it sound like he's saying.
"We're the bestest friends EVAR and we always will be my BFFs! So don't worry! I will die and stuff but that doesn't mean I'll start hating you because we're best friends foreverrrrrrr Kawaii Desuuuu~!!"
Where as I feel a better way to interpret it would be:
"Don't worry, because we are friends..... and regardless of what might happen that friendship will never be in jeopardy. SO even if we are parted in some way, you will not forget me... and I will not forget you... Because we will be friends... forever"

These are just my thoughts though. I am the biggest NiGHTS Noob in creation still (I mean look at my profile on the left XDDD 7 posts!!) but I hope that what I say can be considered and thought over. I hope I did not say anything vastly stupid or something the whole fanbase knows to be bogus.
But this is what I make of the game.
and even in the vastly unlikely event that NiGHTS is lost to both Helen and Will, they weren't the only two who met NiGHTS in this game. We did too. And at least for me, NiGHTS will NEVER be lost.

..... I will end this gushy mush now XD;;

[DAiLiGHT]

Spoiler

Well, I think NiGHTS never "died" in the first place. We saw him glow and fade, but did we ever see a body? Did we ever poke it with a stick and say "Yep. He's dead."? Nope! For all the kids know, he could have simply... like, teleported out of there. Beam me up, Scotty! There's no evidence to support that he actually even "died" at all. For all we know, he could have faked his death in order to get the kids to wake up and live their lives. God knows seeing my best friend die in a dream would make me wake up real quick.

[viperxmns]

I was thinking about this, it doesn't seem like the new 'adults only' "Dreams Dreams" is actually in the game this time. Just the two kids' (+ adults) versions and the lovely "Sweet Snow" version.

??

[Ashashi]

I just finished the whole game this morning and I CRIED. In fact, I'm still crying. I really hope this isn't an omen or anything for them to stop because I would like to see NiGHTS again. The ending was just heartbreakingly sweet T_T

Hopefully though, he's not. In the unofficial ending Wizeman does say that as long as there's darkness in human hearts then he will always exsist, which would include all of Nightmare and NiGHTS.

It's still sad though T_T

[Musica]

Spoiler

I think NiGHTS is our next Shadow the Hedgehog. Especially what we know from SEGA's history of "dead" characters. Dreams don't die. As long as Wizeman doesn't stay dead, then neither should NiGHTS. Who says NiGHTS needs Wizeman for his/her continued existence. If that were the case, then Wizeman would have erased NiGHTS a long time ago.

For that matter, what became of Reala? Isn't it possible if Wizeman is gone for the time being that he/she/it/them/us/you/me/those creepy old people over there could be the next Wizeman? Along the lines of Shadow, there could eventually be a Reala game involving the previously mentioned (by other posters) evil dreamer or some antihero antics. Of course, it would be terrible if they decided to give Reala a gun or vehicles.

Actually, the next (if any) NiGHTS game could be Reala keeping Wizeman in check. That would be appropriate if Reala realized what NiGHTS knew about Wizeman. Maybe Reala would finally get sick of being a puppet.

Just some thoughts...

[apti]

A game where you play as Reala would be neat... o_o Or, like you could play like SA2, switching between the good and bad sides, and play as NiGHTS or Reala... *drools*

I was thinking about this, it doesn't seem like the new 'adults only' "Dreams Dreams" is actually in the game this time. Just the two kids' (+ adults) versions and the lovely "Sweet Snow" version.

??

You know, I still think there may be some kind of superdupersecret ending that no one's found yet...
Not to get anyone's hopes up or anything, but some things don't add up. No adult Dreams Dreams credits. No all-A ending that's immediately apparent. 60 dreamdrops gets you something that's seemingly only for nostalgia...

Hmmm... Hmmmmmmmm.

I need to do some investigatin'...

[C-Puff]

That'd be great 8D
Maybe it's something you get if you completely WIPE the game. That is to say all As with everything AND Dreamdrops AND .....whatever else there is one does completely.

[apti]

That'd be great 8D
Maybe it's something you get if you completely WIPE the game. That is to say all As with everything AND Dreamdrops AND .....whatever else there is one does completely.

I want to find out what the other little icon things for My Dream are... I've gotten two out of about six or so, and I can't figure out how to get the others or what they're for. One looks like a crown (King Pian, supposedly) one looks like the nightmaren icon, one's a... square connecty-thing, one's something circular I can't make out, and one's something that looks like a medal.

No one else I've asked knows what they're for either... rrgh.

Anyway, I've got all As and dreamdrops, I'll try playing through all the missions with the "unlockable characters" first to see if the devs were just sneaky like that.


I could be chasing shadows, but I feel like something's missing... I won't be satisfied til I've done everything I can think of x_x

[EZEKiAL]

Well, just because people stop remembering and dreaming of NiGHTS, doesn't mean he'll die.

Listen up. The Owl says at the beginning that the Night Dimension "exists, but you visit it while you sleep" or whatever. MEANING, that it is NOT a dream. This world REALLY exists, and it is simply parallel to the Waking. NiGHTS, Reala, and Wizeman are REAL, and do not rely on memories, dreams, or anything else to survive. If what you're saying is true, then why wouldn't humans disappear whenever the Nightmarens and Nightopians stop thinking about them?

[apti]

Well, just because people stop remembering and dreaming of NiGHTS, doesn't mean he'll die.

Listen up. The Owl says at the beginning that the Night Dimension "exists, but you visit it while you sleep" or whatever. MEANING, that it is NOT a dream. This world REALLY exists, and it is simply parallel to the Waking. NiGHTS, Reala, and Wizeman are REAL, and do not rely on memories, dreams, or anything else to survive. If what you're saying is true, then why wouldn't humans disappear whenever the Nightmarens and Nightopians stop thinking about them?

Good point, this is something that's easy to forget about. I thought it was pretty interesting how they deliberately made that distinction...

Granted, a person's fears and imagination still have an effect on shaping their own 'dreams' as pointed out to us by NiGHTS and the kids. So it's not all that much different than we thought, but the nightmarens seem to operate a bit separately.

This little piece of information will probably do a lot to change how the fandom thinks about Nightopia... not all that much, but it'll be important.

[EZEKiAL]

Good point, this is something that's easy to forget about. I thought it was pretty interesting how they deliberately made that distinction...

Granted, a person's fears and imagination still have an effect on shaping their own 'dreams' as pointed out to us by NiGHTS and the kids. So it's not all that much different than we thought, but the nightmarens seem to operate a bit separately.

This little piece of information will probably do a lot to change how the fandom thinks about Nightopia... not all that much, but it'll be important.

All right! I actually made a good point! THUMBS UP FOR ZEKE!

Yeah, I'm sure you're right about the fears and imagination thing. But the Nightmaren (especially Reala, who even

Spoiler

threatens to kill Will

) seem extremely independant.

[apti]

Maybe since they're the actual inhabitants of the other world, it would make sense for them to be able to act independently of a visitor's dreams... it's THEIR world after all, the fact that people from another world can go mess with the landscape is quite rude, really.
If they didn't have that much power over their own status in their world things would be quite unpleasant for them, I think...

edit: Maybe that's why Wizeman and the marens hate humans so much and try to scare them into waking up, they want us out of there! XD

[Artemis]

Well, just because people stop remembering and dreaming of NiGHTS, doesn't mean he'll die.

Listen up. The Owl says at the beginning that the Night Dimension "exists, but you visit it while you sleep" or whatever. MEANING, that it is NOT a dream. This world REALLY exists, and it is simply parallel to the Waking. NiGHTS, Reala, and Wizeman are REAL, and do not rely on memories, dreams, or anything else to survive. If what you're saying is true, then why wouldn't humans disappear whenever the Nightmarens and Nightopians stop thinking about them?

I agree completely. When you sleep, it is possible for you're subconscious mind to travel to different places, and different worlds are no different. SO, since Nightmare and Nightopia are actual worlds we are only capable of visiting when we sleep of course the inhabitants would have no influence whatsoever on what the dreamer is like. Only the worlds, which are basically blank canvases that we can supply the paint for with our personalities, imagination, and/or hidden feelings/desires, are influenced by us. The subconscious mind is in no way bound by terrestrial restraints unlike when we're awake. (And that just sounded a little odd, but that's how I think.)

[phosphorus]

I wasn't thrilled with the ending of this game for a different reason than most of you:

it reminds me too much of the Archie comic, specificly, this page

NiGHTS seemingly dieing, then the dreamers meet, then there's NiGHTS on top of a tower.

E: But to be honest, the ending from R-Type Final got me more emotional

Spoiler

The pilot most certainly died. There's a good ending, but it's nigh impossible to get, so I haven't seen it

[Draykon]

Spoiler

Yeah, I cried at the end. But not because NiGHTS died. It was because I'd been playing videogames for 12 hours straight, and I had one heck of a headache.

The whole, darkness in human hearts things was enough to reassure me. Although to be honest, I thought Helen had some freaky psionic powers or something when the bells rang, the lights went out, and she clutched her head like that.

[DAiLiGHT]

Spoiler

Yeah, I cried at the end. But not because NiGHTS died. It was because I'd been playing videogames for 12 hours straight, and I had one heck of a headache.

The whole, darkness in human hearts things was enough to reassure me. Although to be honest, I thought Helen had some freaky psionic powers or something when the bells rang, the lights went out, and she clutched her head like that.

Spoiler

I noticed that too. The lights went out... how come she was the only one to have the Ideya torn out of her? Why didn't Will have his Ideya taken too? Why did Helen fall?

[YamiLover13]

Spoiler

I noticed that too. The lights went out... how come she was the only one to have the Ideya torn out of her? Why didn't Will have his Ideya taken too? Why did Helen fall?

Mayber she is afraid of the dark? *shrugs*

[DAiLiGHT]

Mayber she is afraid of the dark? *shrugs*

I don't think so, 'cause it's my belief that everyone is afraid of the dark in their own way. Maybe not even a fear of the dark, but a fear of the unknown that may lie within that darkness.

[YamiLover13]

I don't think so, 'cause it's my belief that everyone is afraid of the dark in their own way. Maybe not even a fear of the dark, but a fear of the unknown that may lie within that darkness.

That is understandable. The unknown is my biggest fear to, but Helen really freaks out. I was a bit startled to see her do that the way she did at the end. It was a bit much. But then again, maybe she was just scared because of what happend in the Bellbridge level. Now why she lost her ideya and fell in that level, I do not know. It was neat but it didn't make sense to me as why she had to fall.

Also, mods, do we need to keep putting everything in a spoiler tag in this topic? Can we just label the whole thing as "Spoiler?" Its a little annoying since just about everything in this topic needs to be wrapped in the spoiler tag.

[Icachan]

I'd say the warning in the topic should be enough, so from here on out you don't really have to put spoilertags on everything. :3

[gypsyhips]

I think it's purely philosophical. I think the meaning of his 'death' touches way beyond just the being of dreams itself. There have been so many connections to Jung, Freud, etc, before in the series ... so, even if it seems rather far fetched, I think it connects to humanism, or, optimistic-nihilism. As... everything cycles, you know? That nothingness is everything. As well as an obvious connection to that quote by Wizeman, about nightmarens continuing to exist as a parallel to humans. Because, well, evil is relentless and covers many levels, doesn't it?

And, in any case, I highly doubt they'd toss the franchise out on it's ass after all this hype, anyways

[DAiLiGHT]

That is understandable. The unknown is my biggest fear to, but Helen really freaks out. I was a bit startled to see her do that the way she did at the end. It was a bit much. But then again, maybe she was just scared because of what happend in the Bellbridge level. Now why she lost her ideya and fell in that level, I do not know. It was neat but it didn't make sense to me as why she had to fall.

Perhaps when she got scared of the loud bells and the dark, it caused enough of a shock in her system to let free that teensy bit of doubt she'd been holding. That teensy bit of doubt was just enough for Wizeman to swoop in and grab that Ideya right out from under her nose. However, when she saw Will risk his life to save her (He could have miscalculated the dive and done a gnarly nose-plant into concrete, you know), she got her courage and strength back now that she had someone by her side to help her through, and her Ideya was returned to her. But Y'know, that's just my imput....

[DARiA]

Um, I don't know if there's my place to speak, as I didn't played the game and therefore don't know all the aspects of its storyline... But, well, I've just watched Helen's and Will's secret endings, so maybe I have an opinion of some sort?

Spoiler

I don't really believe that NiGHTS died - in fact, I don't believe it at all. How can you kill a dream, anyway? Well, if its your own dream, you can forget it and it's like it has been killed. But, what if you dream about something not really yours?

As far as I know, NiGHTS is supposed to be a Trickster archetype; this archetype, as I learned, leads you or anyone to new ways and decisions. Why I'm saying this, is because I see NiGHTS "death" as a mere "departure" (guhhh, I can't pick the right words). What I mean is that NiGHTS came to dreamers when they were kinda stuck in their life way. He came to give them a little push so they can overcome their difficulties. Difficulties overcome - he waves goodbye and sets off the dreamers' dreamworld. Maybe until they need a little guidance again...

So, when I saw NiGHTS vanishing in the white light, I saw this as a "I guided you all the way when you were in trouble, but now you can walk on your own, so, good-bye". Or something along this lines...

NiGHTS can never die. We the fandom just won't allow it to happen, will we?

He'd just reappear on someone's other way for a little help, methinks...

Plus, another reason why SEGA won't kill NiGHTS - it's simply because SEGA kills cute little girls only (like Tikal and Maria, or Molly and Cosmo from SonicX anime series)


Hope my post wasn't bothersome ^^*

[Musica]

An amendment to my previous post...

Perhaps the situations in NiGHTS games are a personal experience. Nightopia(s) exist(s) exclusively for one dreamer, with some exception. Perhaps the marens are also personal, save for the ones who exist in the dream world normally, like Reala and NiGHTS who each seem to be a dream archetype, as someone previously mentioned (so they may be personal, too). It's entirely possible that Wizeman is a personal representation of the darkness in each dreamer's heart. Wizeman just happens to be the shape that the dreamworld turns the darkness into, much like the constant appearance of the Ideya, NiGHTS and Reala. Therefore, the NiGHTS and Wizeman (and maybe Reala) of Will and Helen's dreams may be gone, but they are not gone from the dream world. Along those lines,Wizeman is also gone from the dream worlds of Claris and Elliot, but possibly not NiGHTS. Also, each boss maren could have been created from the individual dreamer's negative qualities (possibly the ones opposite of their respectively stolen Ideya), making them, too, individual to the respective dreamer. The fact that Wizeman sics them on the dreamers may show that he, apparently being the supreme negative force in the Dream World, may be the embodiment of each dreamers inner darkness. In a sense, the entire Nightopian adventure for each dreamer is a battle with what could be defined as (in the sense of the name) Selph. Maybe Selph still exists as the cumulative darkness in the dreamer's heart, a catchall name for their personal Nightmarens.

Also, seriously, There should be a Reala game...

Just some thoughts...

[viperxmns]

Guys, I might just be late to the party, but I just had a startling realization watching the ending creds for NiD again last night.. "Sweet Snow" is sung by Jasmine Allen.. I knew that name sounded familiar.. Jasmine Allen was a vocalist in the original game.. guys, I think Sweet Snow is SUNG BY CLARIS 11 YEARS LATER. Which is pretty awesome, since Sonic Team got her back and all, and it seems she's been working on her voice

[Poly C:]

oh whoa O_O that's really cute from sega. Looks like they haven't forgotten the old dreamers :3 awesome

[Blue Fantasy]

Um... something has been bugging me... It seems like a gaping plothole. Wizeman said he was going to put a new soul in NiGHTS' body. NiGHTS went unconcious! And when they find him chained up he's... still himself. So what ever happened to that? Is Wizeman one of those parents that makes idle threats with no intention to follow through?

[DAiLiGHT]

Either that or he got distracted by his own shiny hands and forgot about the Flamboyant Jester of Justice.

[Wizeman the Wicked]

Um... something has been bugging me... It seems like a gaping plothole. Wizeman said he was going to put a new soul in NiGHTS' body. NiGHTS went unconcious! And when they find him chained up he's... still himself. So what ever happened to that? Is Wizeman one of those parents that makes idle threats with no intention to follow through?

That bothered me, as well. Will and Helen rescued NiGHTS before Wizeman had a chance to do anything to him. It's my guess that Wizeman wasn't counting on the Visitors to come to his aide, so he took his sweet time preparing NiGHTS for the ritual.

A really big plothole that ticked me off was

Spoiler

when you beat Reala for the second time, and the story progresses like it never even happened. It's as if Reala just disappears without explanation after the fight.

[AdaMiSt]

That confused me too. I suppose he just buzzed off trying to hold back his tears. I'll bet he was really confused with his sudden non-existence after Wizeman was defeated.

Reala: *after drying off his tears, begins to disintegrate* Do I suck that bad?!


As for the actual ending itself, I'm positive people here have it right and it's entirely symbolic. The lights turning out is really the only other thing that's a tad confusing about it. Not sure if that was symbolic of Wizeman and his creations' return, or what. It could have just been to scare Helen so Will could make a snazzy entrance and get the girl. The parents sure did run off awful quickly.

Helen's mom didn't even react to her daughter getting scared. Will's dad (and friends)...well I guess just kept walking. That's love right there, leaving your son alone in a city at night.

[Innotech]

I love how this game has far more depth than we could have hoped for. Lots to discuss about the story and gameplay and it seems that people will continue to one up each other with scores. It all makes me so happy I could squee. Well, more than usual.