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The Ending


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#41
Tsunami

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Just watched the secret endings online, since it's been taking me too long to get all A's in every quest (that is the requirement for the special endings, no?)

Spoiler


Now I will take my broken brain and go to bed.

#42
DylanJohn

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Just watched the secret endings online, since it's been taking me too long to get all A's in every quest (that is the requirement for the special endings, no?)


Nope, it's not. You only need Cs across the board for both kids, then go do the last stage a second time.

#43
Tsunami

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Nope, it's not. You only need Cs across the board for both kids, then go do the last stage a second time.


Really? I tried this and got nothing, not even the
Spoiler
Do I have to play the end through again as both children? The first time I beat Wizeman, I had all C's or above except for one D on a Will level. I went back, fixed that so everything was C and greater, then played through the end as Helen... and no change. No Reala, no special ending. :( Do I need to play the last level once again as Will, too?

#44
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Once you've got all Cs with both kids, and beaten Wizeman once with each of them, you should get the extended sequence the next time you head to Bellbridge. It needs to be your second (or more) time as that particular child.

#45
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Yeah you need to get C's or higher with both of them.

Gah, I gotta say, It's almost four in the morning but I beat it just now. I cried. I sware, I did. Specially that thing with Helen and her Mom at the end.

Spoiler


God, I'm so lazy around here. :P

#46
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Yeah you need to get C's or higher with both of them.

Gah, I gotta say, It's almost four in the morning but I beat it just now. I cried. I sware, I did. Specially that thing with Helen and her Mom at the end.

Spoiler


God, I'm so lazy around here. :(



Spoiler


#47
spinningcannon

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All right, these may be total wishful thinking on my part, or they may be totally viable possibilities. You guys decide.

Spoiler




All ideas, criticism, bursts of inspiration and arguments of logic are highly appreciated...!

#48
Rily

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All right, these may be total wishful thinking on my part, or they may be totally viable possibilities. You guys decide.

Spoiler


Very interesting points...I agree with the
Spoiler
part.

Spoiler


#49
Kori

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Great theories, spinningcannon! What I'd like to elaborate on is
Spoiler


Let's keep elaborating, this is fun! :D

#50
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Just saw the end scene for both Will and Helen and, although I am brand spanking new to NiGHTS in all aspects I hope this means I can give something of a "fresh" opinion.

Firstly, I want to say that although the ending tore my heart out (And I'm not even a fangirl yet XDD but I am slowly turning into one and that ending did nothing to stop that) Anyway, although the ending was wonderfully sad and the game is insanely fun to play... there are a lot of technical faults with it. (Just hear me out, I'm not flaming the game, just read on)
Firstly Helen's voice acting is... ..terrible. I'm sorry there's no other word for it. Secondly, here and there I feel that some-one in change of the main idea of the game knew what they were doing but by the time that part of the project was handed down the hierarchy at the studio the subordinates didn't really "get it" as such. So they tried to do what they THOUGHT was expected and right along the lines of "We are making a kiddies' game ahur 8B" and lost the plot of the bigger dream if you will of what NiGHTS actually is. It's a very deep, meaningful concept. It is simple, and not completely clear, and vague, and sad and beautiful and it purposefully tells us very little so that we can see more of ourselves in it and less of the creators which is why NiGHTS is such a personal game and why it strikes such a deep chord with its fans. But those handling the nitty gritty parts of it, voice acting, motion capture, Cut scene animation etc, were confused by this. "We're making a game about two children who meet a strange creature and have to save Nightopia but... they're not GIVING US ENOUGH. ...oh well. it's just a kiddy game after all. We don't need to be very specific. Kids don't think after all"
And so a lot of this gets a little lost here and there in the game in some places. It's like the larger dream is butting heads with those who are, sadly, narrow minded and only seeing that they are making a game for what they think are a children audience.
Because of this some things were not interpreted right from the bigger dream.
Spoiler



..... I will end this gushy mush now XD;;

#51
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Spoiler


#52
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I was thinking about this, it doesn't seem like the new 'adults only' "Dreams Dreams" is actually in the game this time. Just the two kids' (+ adults) versions and the lovely "Sweet Snow" version.

??

#53
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I just finished the whole game this morning and I CRIED. In fact, I'm still crying. I really hope this isn't an omen or anything for them to stop because I would like to see NiGHTS again. The ending was just heartbreakingly sweet T_T

Hopefully though, he's not. In the unofficial ending Wizeman does say that as long as there's darkness in human hearts then he will always exsist, which would include all of Nightmare and NiGHTS.

It's still sad though T_T

#54
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Spoiler


Just some thoughts...

#55
apti

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A game where you play as Reala would be neat... o_o Or, like you could play like SA2, switching between the good and bad sides, and play as NiGHTS or Reala... *drools*

I was thinking about this, it doesn't seem like the new 'adults only' "Dreams Dreams" is actually in the game this time. Just the two kids' (+ adults) versions and the lovely "Sweet Snow" version.

??

You know, I still think there may be some kind of superdupersecret ending that no one's found yet...
Not to get anyone's hopes up or anything, but some things don't add up. No adult Dreams Dreams credits. No all-A ending that's immediately apparent. 60 dreamdrops gets you something that's seemingly only for nostalgia...

Hmmm... Hmmmmmmmm.

I need to do some investigatin'...

#56
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That'd be great 8D
Maybe it's something you get if you completely WIPE the game. That is to say all As with everything AND Dreamdrops AND .....whatever else there is one does completely.

#57
apti

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That'd be great 8D
Maybe it's something you get if you completely WIPE the game. That is to say all As with everything AND Dreamdrops AND .....whatever else there is one does completely.

I want to find out what the other little icon things for My Dream are... I've gotten two out of about six or so, and I can't figure out how to get the others or what they're for. One looks like a crown (King Pian, supposedly) one looks like the nightmaren icon, one's a... square connecty-thing, one's something circular I can't make out, and one's something that looks like a medal.

No one else I've asked knows what they're for either... rrgh.

Anyway, I've got all As and dreamdrops, I'll try playing through all the missions with the "unlockable characters" first to see if the devs were just sneaky like that.


I could be chasing shadows, but I feel like something's missing... I won't be satisfied til I've done everything I can think of x_x

#58
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Well, just because people stop remembering and dreaming of NiGHTS, doesn't mean he'll die.

Listen up. The Owl says at the beginning that the Night Dimension "exists, but you visit it while you sleep" or whatever. MEANING, that it is NOT a dream. This world REALLY exists, and it is simply parallel to the Waking. NiGHTS, Reala, and Wizeman are REAL, and do not rely on memories, dreams, or anything else to survive. If what you're saying is true, then why wouldn't humans disappear whenever the Nightmarens and Nightopians stop thinking about them?

#59
apti

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Well, just because people stop remembering and dreaming of NiGHTS, doesn't mean he'll die.

Listen up. The Owl says at the beginning that the Night Dimension "exists, but you visit it while you sleep" or whatever. MEANING, that it is NOT a dream. This world REALLY exists, and it is simply parallel to the Waking. NiGHTS, Reala, and Wizeman are REAL, and do not rely on memories, dreams, or anything else to survive. If what you're saying is true, then why wouldn't humans disappear whenever the Nightmarens and Nightopians stop thinking about them?

Good point, this is something that's easy to forget about. I thought it was pretty interesting how they deliberately made that distinction...

Granted, a person's fears and imagination still have an effect on shaping their own 'dreams' as pointed out to us by NiGHTS and the kids. So it's not all that much different than we thought, but the nightmarens seem to operate a bit separately.

This little piece of information will probably do a lot to change how the fandom thinks about Nightopia... not all that much, but it'll be important.

#60
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Good point, this is something that's easy to forget about. I thought it was pretty interesting how they deliberately made that distinction...

Granted, a person's fears and imagination still have an effect on shaping their own 'dreams' as pointed out to us by NiGHTS and the kids. So it's not all that much different than we thought, but the nightmarens seem to operate a bit separately.

This little piece of information will probably do a lot to change how the fandom thinks about Nightopia... not all that much, but it'll be important.


All right! I actually made a good point! THUMBS UP FOR ZEKE!

Yeah, I'm sure you're right about the fears and imagination thing. But the Nightmaren (especially Reala, who even
Spoiler
) seem extremely independant.

#61
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Maybe since they're the actual inhabitants of the other world, it would make sense for them to be able to act independently of a visitor's dreams... it's THEIR world after all, the fact that people from another world can go mess with the landscape is quite rude, really.
If they didn't have that much power over their own status in their world things would be quite unpleasant for them, I think...

edit: Maybe that's why Wizeman and the marens hate humans so much and try to scare them into waking up, they want us out of there! XD

#62
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Well, just because people stop remembering and dreaming of NiGHTS, doesn't mean he'll die.

Listen up. The Owl says at the beginning that the Night Dimension "exists, but you visit it while you sleep" or whatever. MEANING, that it is NOT a dream. This world REALLY exists, and it is simply parallel to the Waking. NiGHTS, Reala, and Wizeman are REAL, and do not rely on memories, dreams, or anything else to survive. If what you're saying is true, then why wouldn't humans disappear whenever the Nightmarens and Nightopians stop thinking about them?


I agree completely. When you sleep, it is possible for you're subconscious mind to travel to different places, and different worlds are no different. SO, since Nightmare and Nightopia are actual worlds we are only capable of visiting when we sleep of course the inhabitants would have no influence whatsoever on what the dreamer is like. Only the worlds, which are basically blank canvases that we can supply the paint for with our personalities, imagination, and/or hidden feelings/desires, are influenced by us. The subconscious mind is in no way bound by terrestrial restraints unlike when we're awake. (And that just sounded a little odd, but that's how I think.)

#63
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I wasn't thrilled with the ending of this game for a different reason than most of you:

it reminds me too much of the Archie comic, specificly, this page

NiGHTS seemingly dieing, then the dreamers meet, then there's NiGHTS on top of a tower.

E: But to be honest, the ending from R-Type Final got me more emotional
Spoiler


#64
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Spoiler


#65
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Spoiler


Spoiler


#66
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Spoiler

Mayber she is afraid of the dark? *shrugs*

#67
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Mayber she is afraid of the dark? *shrugs*

I don't think so, 'cause it's my belief that everyone is afraid of the dark in their own way. Maybe not even a fear of the dark, but a fear of the unknown that may lie within that darkness.

#68
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I don't think so, 'cause it's my belief that everyone is afraid of the dark in their own way. Maybe not even a fear of the dark, but a fear of the unknown that may lie within that darkness.

That is understandable. The unknown is my biggest fear to, but Helen really freaks out. I was a bit startled to see her do that the way she did at the end. It was a bit much. But then again, maybe she was just scared because of what happend in the Bellbridge level. Now why she lost her ideya and fell in that level, I do not know. It was neat but it didn't make sense to me as why she had to fall.

Also, mods, do we need to keep putting everything in a spoiler tag in this topic? Can we just label the whole thing as "Spoiler?" Its a little annoying since just about everything in this topic needs to be wrapped in the spoiler tag.

#69
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I'd say the warning in the topic should be enough, so from here on out you don't really have to put spoilertags on everything. :3

#70
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I think it's purely philosophical. I think the meaning of his 'death' touches way beyond just the being of dreams itself. There have been so many connections to Jung, Freud, etc, before in the series ... so, even if it seems rather far fetched, I think it connects to humanism, or, optimistic-nihilism. As... everything cycles, you know? That nothingness is everything. As well as an obvious connection to that quote by Wizeman, about nightmarens continuing to exist as a parallel to humans. Because, well, evil is relentless and covers many levels, doesn't it?

And, in any case, I highly doubt they'd toss the franchise out on it's ass after all this hype, anyways :P

#71
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That is understandable. The unknown is my biggest fear to, but Helen really freaks out. I was a bit startled to see her do that the way she did at the end. It was a bit much. But then again, maybe she was just scared because of what happend in the Bellbridge level. Now why she lost her ideya and fell in that level, I do not know. It was neat but it didn't make sense to me as why she had to fall.


Perhaps when she got scared of the loud bells and the dark, it caused enough of a shock in her system to let free that teensy bit of doubt she'd been holding. That teensy bit of doubt was just enough for Wizeman to swoop in and grab that Ideya right out from under her nose. However, when she saw Will risk his life to save her (He could have miscalculated the dive and done a gnarly nose-plant into concrete, you know), she got her courage and strength back now that she had someone by her side to help her through, and her Ideya was returned to her. But Y'know, that's just my imput....

#72
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Um, I don't know if there's my place to speak, as I didn't played the game and therefore don't know all the aspects of its storyline... But, well, I've just watched Helen's and Will's secret endings, so maybe I have an opinion of some sort?

Spoiler


#73
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An amendment to my previous post...

Perhaps the situations in NiGHTS games are a personal experience. Nightopia(s) exist(s) exclusively for one dreamer, with some exception. Perhaps the marens are also personal, save for the ones who exist in the dream world normally, like Reala and NiGHTS who each seem to be a dream archetype, as someone previously mentioned (so they may be personal, too). It's entirely possible that Wizeman is a personal representation of the darkness in each dreamer's heart. Wizeman just happens to be the shape that the dreamworld turns the darkness into, much like the constant appearance of the Ideya, NiGHTS and Reala. Therefore, the NiGHTS and Wizeman (and maybe Reala) of Will and Helen's dreams may be gone, but they are not gone from the dream world. Along those lines,Wizeman is also gone from the dream worlds of Claris and Elliot, but possibly not NiGHTS. Also, each boss maren could have been created from the individual dreamer's negative qualities (possibly the ones opposite of their respectively stolen Ideya), making them, too, individual to the respective dreamer. The fact that Wizeman sics them on the dreamers may show that he, apparently being the supreme negative force in the Dream World, may be the embodiment of each dreamers inner darkness. In a sense, the entire Nightopian adventure for each dreamer is a battle with what could be defined as (in the sense of the name) Selph. Maybe Selph still exists as the cumulative darkness in the dreamer's heart, a catchall name for their personal Nightmarens.

Also, seriously, There should be a Reala game...

Just some thoughts...

#74
viperxmns

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Guys, I might just be late to the party, but I just had a startling realization watching the ending creds for NiD again last night.. "Sweet Snow" is sung by Jasmine Allen.. I knew that name sounded familiar.. Jasmine Allen was a vocalist in the original game.. guys, I think Sweet Snow is SUNG BY CLARIS 11 YEARS LATER. Which is pretty awesome, since Sonic Team got her back and all, and it seems she's been working on her voice ^_^

#75
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oh whoa O_O that's really cute from sega. Looks like they haven't forgotten the old dreamers :3 awesome

#76
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Um... something has been bugging me... It seems like a gaping plothole. Wizeman said he was going to put a new soul in NiGHTS' body. NiGHTS went unconcious! And when they find him chained up he's... still himself. So what ever happened to that? Is Wizeman one of those parents that makes idle threats with no intention to follow through?

#77
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  • Interests:I like NiGHTS, Sonic games, the Nightmare Before Christmas (I wonder what would happen if Oogie and Reala met... hmmmm.....) Writing, drawing, art in any way, shape, or form, hard rock music, dancing wildly even though I can't dance for crap. I write poetry and lyrics (although they're not very good T__T) and comedy movies. I love the Dreamcast podcast that DiGi and TRiPPY put on. I also enjoy thinking outside the box. I'm what is known as a Meathead. I can laugh at myself, think outside the box, and smile. Meatheads are smarter than your average Joe, with much more common sense and the rare ability to find creative solutions to problems. My idol is a man named Jimmy Dolittle. Look him up ^.~
Either that or he got distracted by his own shiny hands and forgot about the Flamboyant Jester of Justice.

#78
Wizeman the Wicked

Wizeman the Wicked

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Um... something has been bugging me... It seems like a gaping plothole. Wizeman said he was going to put a new soul in NiGHTS' body. NiGHTS went unconcious! And when they find him chained up he's... still himself. So what ever happened to that? Is Wizeman one of those parents that makes idle threats with no intention to follow through?


That bothered me, as well. Will and Helen rescued NiGHTS before Wizeman had a chance to do anything to him. It's my guess that Wizeman wasn't counting on the Visitors to come to his aide, so he took his sweet time preparing NiGHTS for the ritual.

A really big plothole that ticked me off was
Spoiler


#79
AdaMiSt

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That confused me too. I suppose he just buzzed off trying to hold back his tears. I'll bet he was really confused with his sudden non-existence after Wizeman was defeated.

Reala: *after drying off his tears, begins to disintegrate* Do I suck that bad?!


As for the actual ending itself, I'm positive people here have it right and it's entirely symbolic. The lights turning out is really the only other thing that's a tad confusing about it. Not sure if that was symbolic of Wizeman and his creations' return, or what. It could have just been to scare Helen so Will could make a snazzy entrance and get the girl. The parents sure did run off awful quickly.

Helen's mom didn't even react to her daughter getting scared. Will's dad (and friends)...well I guess just kept walking. That's love right there, leaving your son alone in a city at night.

#80
Innotech

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I love how this game has far more depth than we could have hoped for. Lots to discuss about the story and gameplay and it seems that people will continue to one up each other with scores. It all makes me so happy I could squee. Well, more than usual.




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