60 replies to this topic

[Tethys]

Disclaimer: I am not the majority. I played Sonic 1 on the Genesis when I was five and have never stopped playing each new game. Yes, I liked Heroes, Shadow, Secret Rings, and Unleashed (even though the Werehog was dumb and the two-games-in-one concept is never good). I didn't even completely hate Sonic '06. So the following are the musings of a slightly embittered Sonic fangirl.

Black Knight is basically Secret Rings + Unleashed (day stages) + a sword. Which, unfortunately, talks. But it's not annoying, and no stranger than the Minish Cap (Zelda), so not really a turn-off for me. The story, dialogue, and voice acting are all a step up from earlier games (making even an SA2 voice cast fan almost forget the 4Kids takeover is impressive). But that's really just the polish.

The gameplay is excellent. Swordplay is simple flicks of the Wii remote, and can enhance the speed of play in many cases. Rarely, Sonic will pause to engage a more powerful foe in brief battle before continuing his run. There are also townspeople (noticeably not human) you can stop to help, or accidentally wound in passing if you're not careful. And the boss battles are fairly simple (so far) duels, unless you plan on a five-star rank (tip - learn to read their attacks).

Aside from that, it's pretty much Unleashed with a bit of Secret Rings influence. I won't go any more in-depth for now, but maybe I'll expand on this in more detail later. Then I could get around to how awesome the music is...

[Kentilan]

You've played it? I forgot it was released this early in America... Here in Europe we have to wait till the 13th
But it sounds great. I can't wait to play it ^^

[Tethys]

Yep! For once, even the Japanese are waiting longer than me.

(Come to think of it, that seems to happen quite often with Sonic games...)

[viperxmns]

I played Black Knight at the New York Comic Con.. the one thing I really don't like is that the game has automatic paths, it's half-rails. Whatever happened to full 3D?

Meh, but besides that, although Sonic's sword attacks look cool, and the game is pretty, the fact that they've now thrown out loops, spins and all that defines Sonic shows me that Sega doesn't understand their mascot anymore. I don't like it. And neither do critics. IGN just blasted it, for the gameplay.. but I rather agree, there's almost no point of this game starring Sonic. My only hope for the game in previews was that somehow it would play like a regular Sonic game, with added sword attacks and maneuvers. Yeah, right.

[Saifer Dracondrali]

Yeaaaaaaa... I knew this is how it would end up... although...
*sigh* people will still buy it and Sega won't change course anytime soon... why bother?
*cries*
-EDiT-
wait... what the!?... Do we really need silver back? I don't think anyone liked him in Sonic next gen...
JET TOO!? good god... Shadows kinda forced his way into the series so I'm used to him at this point... and Blaze made it in... I'm good with that cuz Blaze rules...

[Tethys]

How do you define "regular" Sonic game? Genesis era? Adventure series? Rush/Rivals?

All series change. I refused to play Mario 64 in the 90's because it completely changed everything. It took me ten years to learn to appreciate that game, and I still don't like it much. But it REALLY annoys me that Mario can do no wrong, while everything Sonic does these days is attacked. I mean, come on... a bee costume in Galaxy? An entire game about cleaning up graffiti? The games are fun, but if you just look at the surface (like most people do with Sonic), the ideas are just dumb.

*steps down from soapbox*

Anyway... yeah. Half-rails make sense to me. Full 3D is about exploration... which people complain about every time Sega tries to do it. In fact, there are so many different factions of Sonic fans, it's no wonder Sega can't appeal to them all.

P.S. - I liked Silver... after I got used to him. His original design was still better, and his voice can be annoying. But he was fun to play. Meh... I know I'm a minority. I'm fine with it.

P.P.S. - Jet?! Where?

[viperxmns]

Okay, it looks like I'm going to have to have one of my little rants/treatises about Sonic now. You say people "complain" every time Sega "tries to do" full 3D exploration. It's not the 'full 3D' that's the problem. It's that they've never really bothered to get it right. Sonic Adventure was a great start. Sure, the controls were a little wonky, but it's forgiveable. Then Sonic Adventure 2 came along, and it was still rather well received. Though I think a lot of the gameplay choices in that game don't hold up over time, they did at lest manage to tighten the controls a bit, so up to this point, no one's really complaining.

Now we start to hit different territory. The thing is, in games like Heroes, Shadow and '06, the controls got progressively worse (besides other questionable gameplay elements), and there is really no excuse for this. I don't see making a game on rails as an answer, as Sonic was always a fully controlled character. This is how he was established. I don't see the reason for Black Knight to be on rails of any kind. I would just designate a button for strafing, rather than have him always be in a 'strafe mode' as he is.

Nintendo has done some odd things with the Mario franchise, but the games never seem to suffer from control issues that hamper the experience. It is entirely plausible that Sonic is much harder to work in 3D, as his play needs to be a lot faster and more 'precise', in a way. Good controls are crucial to any game. Recent Sonic games are beautiful to look at; I hope they're not working on polishing visuals when they should be polishing controls. I'd rather the game be well controlled and a little less pretty.

I think a 'regular' Sonic game is one that sticks to Sonic's roots, in the way of not throwing in unoriginal gameplay elements like weapons or hack n slash transformations. Sonic was designed around using his own body as a weapon, in well designed worlds that require careful use of his abilities.

[Tethys]

What, you think I want to be the only one venting here? Feel free.

Several critics disliked Adventure, but I agree that SA2 was probably the best 3D Sonic to date. As for the controls getting "progressively worse", I honestly didn't see that in Heroes (Gamecube). Shadow (Gamecube), a little bit... his movement could have been tighter. Sonic '06 (PS3), interestingly, I had no problem controlling Shadow or Silver... just Sonic on a board or in a high-speed run. I've heard other people had issues, but I never did. And I played them quite a bit.

Another problem we get into is the difference between Sega and Nintendo. Sega's corporate environment has been unfair to Sonic since the Dreamcast died. I could go on, but I won't.

Bringing this back to the Black Knight, remember that it's the Storybook series. He shouldn't have a sword, but I think it makes sense in this context. If it's not your thing, wait for the next main series game. I'd like another Sonic Adventure 2, but a Werehog-less Unleashed would be nice, too. Until then, I'm actually enjoying Sir Sonic, Knight of the Wind. (And the best Sonic soundtrack since Heroes and Shadow. )

[Musashi_HUmar]

I think I'll at least give this game its fair chance. If I like it, I like it. If not, then that's ok. I'll wait till the next one. I'm still enjoying Unleashed.

[Saifer Dracondrali]

A few die hard Sonic fans I know (both under the age of 10) didn't play Unleashed for more than 5 hours total and they aren't even stuck yet... They are however still playing SA2 so they can make all those different chaos that you heard in the past as school rumors... they played the heck out of secret rings (despite the fact that they had a heck of a time beating any of the levels...) and naturally once they heard about Black knight they jumped all over the info... they still have yet to play it thou as of my current knowledge...

Sonic adventure and SA2 were almost on rails... but they were still fun... I liked secret rings though it was abit odd to play... I think Sega should pull out a copy of SA2 and see what they can do from there...
personally...

[7Force]

I've been hearing mixed things about the game but I do want to try it out despite IGN's 3.9 out of 10 review score.

[JaxTH]

Intro + First level:



Make of it what you will.

[DiGi Valentine]

Well, i saw the intro and i'm asking myself why that silly Princess just didn't 'teleport' herself out of harms way in the first place rather than summon Sonic into this crappy game. :/

Also, they went and screwed Knuckles' voice box so HARD on this one.

Ok dokio. I'm off to read the reviews and find out why this game is so bad.

[DAiLiGHT]

I always have, and still do, wonder why I am the only person on the face of the Earth who seems to love all of these supposedly "horrible" Sonic games. Sonic Unleashed, Sonic and the Secret Rings, Sonic 360, Shadow the Hedgehog.... I don't know what draws me to them, but I love them all. I'm going to read the reviews and watch the intro, and enjoy it, because I love these games. I honestly don't see why everyone else calls them crap. It baffles me. Oh well, I guess I can be insane on my own time, so I'll stop wasting yours.

[Lenneth]

The Minions of the Black Knight look like Dark Gaia Minions rip-offs<.< Anyways, I had no high expectations of this game, since it felt like "Shadow the Hedgehog goes medieval" from the start somehow, and I don't think that fairy tale stories fit the style of Sonic, that's one of the big points why I didn't like the Secret Rings(well that, and the unbeliveable crappy controls, seriously did they even test it before releasing the game?!)

[JaxTH]

Secret Rings had good controls.

Anyway...I hated Shadow and Sonic '06, I like the others though.

I haven't played Rush Adventure, the Rival games or the RPG yet though. I want Black Knight for the awesome cutscenes and music.

[Dex la Cabra]

well, there is the whole thing with having to go upside down on the planets on galaxy. it would've been better if they took a leaf out of Rouge's mad space's book so when you stood at the south pole of a planet, it didn't turn the camera upside down. sorry, a bit of a digression. Black Knight isn't out yet in the UK, but i'm waiting patiently for the 13th of march

[Tethys]

Well, i saw the intro and i'm asking myself why that silly Princess just didn't 'teleport' herself out of harms way in the first place rather than summon Sonic into this crappy game. :/

Also, they went and screwed Knuckles' voice box so HARD on this one.

Ok dokio. I'm off to read the reviews and find out why this game is so bad.

The reason actually becomes clear as you play through the story. And she's Merlin's granddaughter, so... not a princess.

Also, I think this game is the first actually good Knuckles performance by Dan Green since parts of Sonic X. But he's playing Knuckles as Gawain, so it's different. And don't bother with the IGN review... they just wanted a classic Sonic game and got the spinoff with the sword that we already knew was coming.

[CrazyInABottle]

I thought Knuckle's overly-dramatic voice was hilarious.

All in all, I think this game is pretty fun. It's way too short and I've heard the multiplayer is crap (I haven't tried it), but I still find it fun to dash through the levels. Besides, Shadow as a playable character = awesome, for me. Anti-Shadowers be darned!

Oh, and DOWN WITH IGN! I really hate them. And not just for their review of this game.

[Tethys]

I thought Knuckle's overly-dramatic voice was hilarious.

All in all, I think this game is pretty fun. It's way too short and I've heard the multiplayer is crap (I haven't tried it), but I still find it fun to dash through the levels. Besides, Shadow as a playable character = awesome, for me. Anti-Shadowers be darned!

Oh, and DOWN WITH IGN! I really hate them. And not just for their review of this game.

I've always liked Shadow... most people liked him in SA2, it was the angsty amnesia in Heroes that made more people hate him.

Also, when even people who hate the game say that IGN's review was horrific, you know something's up. (Title of an actual user review on GameFAQs: "This game was bad, the IGN review was worse".)

Now that I've had more time with the game, I can agree - it is short. Most Sonic games are, but the optional missions definitely extend it quite a bit. Some of them border on the impossible - thankfully, not as much as Secret Rings. Two words, though... "Lancelot Returns". Anyone who tells you the bosses are easy is right, with this one exception. I think the developers did that on purpose. Save the really hard/challenging stuff for the optional missions, and make the main game somewhat easy (overall) to get through.

Since I'm a "completist", you can expect me to spend the time getting five stars on all missions, leveling up all of Sonic's styles, and finding all weapons for the Knights. Even unlocking Big in multiplayer, if he turns out to actually be in there (I've only heard a rumor).

[CrazyInABottle]

Nah, Big and Merlina as playable characters was fake. Has anyone seen Big even once in a level? I know there's an item you can collect called Big's Mask or something like that, but that's all I've seen.

Lancelot Returns...pure evil, I agree. Some people have come up with a good strategy for beating it. It has something to do with guarding his attacks to build up your soul gauge, then using the...slow-down-quick-slice-attacking-thing on him (I suck with names of stuff).

Oh Tethys, I'm still having no luck with my Wii connection. I'm really sorry, I wanted to trade items with you and whatever else. Hopefully a good solution will come up soon.

[Bannipper]

This game is amazing throughout. I loved it, and I'm not some fanboy in case you were wondering. but I am in a bit of a fix. How do you beat King Arthur furing your second brawl against him?

[Tethys]

It has something to do with guarding his attacks to build up your soul gauge, then using the...slow-down-quick-slice-attacking-thing on him

You mean "Soul Surge"? That's how I eventually beat him. After about an hour of playing only that mission and figuring out every nuance of his attack pattern...

And no, I haven't seen Big in a single level. But he was playable in Secret Rings, so I did wonder.

@ Bannipper - King Arthur is pretty tough (after all, he is the "final" boss - yes, it's in quotes for a reason). You have to knock back the energy spheres he throws at you to build up your Soul Gauge, then use Soul Surge to catch up with him. Once you've caught up, you have to counter his attacks before you can land any damage. The good news is, when you use Soul Surge, you automatically knock back any energy spheres in your way. Which builds up your Soul Gauge even more, which prepares you for attack much better.

[Kentilan]

And no, I haven't seen Big in a single level. But he was playable in Secret Rings, so I did wonder.

Are you sure? I know he made a few cameos during the levels, but as far as I know he wasn't playable...

[Tethys]

Are you sure? I know he made a few cameos during the levels, but as far as I know he wasn't playable...

I could be wrong, since I haven't finished all of Secret Rings yet. But I heard he was playable in Party mode from various sources.

[MORRiS1113]

im sorry fans. but Sonic the hedgehog and the black Knight. SUCKS A$$
ive already beaten this game and its only been... less then 2 hours.
I really wanted to give this game a chance because i really liked the idea of Sonic having a sword
but the fact that they recycled Sonic and the Secret Rings game play, game play of another game that sucked
so much its not worthy of talking about.

this time, with the control stick you are able to move around. but its freedom only goes so far.
i feel very sorry for anyone who purchased this game. i know i am.

WHY IS IT SO HARD TO MAKE ( Sonic Adventure 3 )
so the original Sonic Team is gone. why cant they recycle that gameplay.
not this (Sonic and the secret rings ) GARBAGE!!!

anyway. i played the game. beat it. now its out of here.
only thing like-able is that Sonic has his Chilidog apetite back.

on my youtube page i have the final battle and cutscenes uploaded. u can find them here
http://www.youtube.com/user/morris1113

[iLLViLLAiN]

I know of the game's harsh criticism and still I sit here wanting it. I've seen people play it on YT and it didn't look like they had control troubles and the gameplay doesn't look bad either. I've gotten Sonic Unleashed despite it's criticism and that's one of my most favorite games of this generation. I'm going to at least give this one a chance.

[MORRiS1113]

I know of the game's harsh criticism and still I sit here wanting it. I've seen people play it on YT and it didn't look like they had control troubles and the gameplay doesn't look bad either. I've gotten Sonic Unleashed despite it's criticism and that's one of my most favorite games of this generation. I'm going to at least give this one a chance.

unleashed was awesome.

[iLLViLLAiN]

unleashed was awesome.

Yes it was. I still play it after beating the game too. Mostly when I feel like blazing at crazy speeds or beating the crap out of things.

[MORRiS1113]

Yes it was. I still play it after beating the game too. Mostly when I feel like blazing at crazy speeds or beating the crap out of things.

unleashed was good. but i promise you. u wont be missing anything buy playing this new garbage. its not worth it

[Kentilan]

I got the game today, and I like it. Quite fun.
And the game is really pretty. I also like all the details they put, for example you can cut the blades of grass, or spot some animals running on the ground. It looks like they put a lot of effort into the game.
Also, they reused/remixed a LOT of songs from previous games, especially in the multiplayer mode. It's nice to hear.

[Tethys]

I get the feeling that Jun Senoue was excited to be leading the sound team for this game - especially with well-known names like Richard Jacques and Howard Drossin involved. And maybe, he considered the idea that this might be the last time he gets to do it for a while. It really feels like he put a lot of effort and love into this project.

Personally, I hope they keep him as sound director for at least the Storybook series. Hearing his work again made me realize how much I missed it since Sega started putting just about every other Wavemaster composer in charge for each new game.

[Feniiku]

I enjoyed the game myself, and would personally give it a 6 or a 7 out of 10, but probably no higher, since there's not a lot of challenge and the game time is so short.

However, I like replaying the levels, which is a good thing, and the music and graphics are pretty nice.

And most importantly, the controls are a lot easier to use than the glorified tech demo that was SatSR.


The one thing I don't like. I REALLY HATE. The second Lancelot fight. He cheats. So badly.

[Tethys]

He's like any other Sonic boss. Once you figure out his pattern and find the openings, he suddenly becomes easy(-ish).

Getting there is really hard, though.

Also, had a chance to try out the multiplayer today. Good senseless fun with four players, probably a little more controllable with only two. Unfortunately, I was over at a friend's house, so we only had the basic four characters to pick from. It would have been nice to give Galahad/Silver or Lamorak/Jet a try...

[StarsOfCASSiOPEiA]

I haven't played it yet, but I was intrigued by the idea of Sonic with a sword. It just sounded like fun ^^

The intro was a bit odd... what was with the hot dogs? Liked the opening theme music, though.

I think I'll give it a chance, I usually like this fairytale-style stuff.

[Tethys]

The intro was a bit odd... what was with the hot dogs?

In the old Sonic cartoons and comic books (back before the games really had any story), Sonic's favorite food was chili dogs. After Sonic Adventure, when Sega decided to merge the Western and Japanese versions of the Sonic continuity, that was one of the things they took from the Western side.

I think Sonic Unleashed was actually the first in-game appearance of a chili dog (as an item described as "Sonic's favorite food"), and Sonic and the Black Knight is the first time they've actually shown Sonic eat chili dogs in a game.

... Yes, I'm a bit of a fangirl. So what?

[Feniiku]

Sonic Advance (or one of those games) was the first time they mentioned the Chilli Dogs though, I believe? Of course, correct me if I'm wrong XD


Also, unlocked my first Legend level today. I like this. Must unlock the others.

[StarsOfCASSiOPEiA]

Ahhhhh, thank you both for clarifying! I've already learned something today. ^^


Nothing wrong with being a fangirl.

[7Force]

I got the game the other day and even though reviews are blasting the game so far I'm enjoying the game. I'm not saying this because I'm a Sonic fanboy which I'm not, I'm saying this as a normal gamer that I think its an ok game.

Also here is a surprise it seems that Games TM have gave the game 8/10 score. To tell the truth I was expecting a lower score, after all they did give Unleashed and Rush Adventure both 5/10.
http://wii.nowgamer....he-black-knight

[JaxTH]

Sonic Advance (or one of those games) was the first time they mentioned the Chilli Dogs though, I believe? Of course, correct me if I'm wrong XD


Also, unlocked my first Legend level today. I like this. Must unlock the others.

Nah...Chili Dogs have been around since at least Sonic 2.