44 replies to this topic

[JaxTH]

http://www.tssznews....nt-you-to-read/

[Maresuke]

It's good to be reassured that people within Sega know how crappy they've become but I also now realise WHY JOD was rushed. Makes me very sad.

Thanks for the great read!

[TRAViS]

I kinda want to cry now. I almost threw up in my mouth reading the original blog post and follow up comments and head-desked shortly after.

2) By the time of TGS last year there were playable ROMS on X360 and the general response to the code was not positive. At this stage the directors questioned the X360/PS3 SKUs and suggested that Wii may be a better choice. Iizuka-san was against this because it would mean reigning in certain aspects of his design, but nonetheless Sega Studio USA (AKA Sonic Team USA) drew up a comparison doc for Wii and X360/PS3 version pros and cons. The summary of this was that they could produce a quick Wii version by FYO8 (2007) and then go onto a different version of NiGHTS 2 on X360/PS3 for FY09 (2008). By different I mean, different like Sonic The Hedgehog on X360/PS3 was a completely different title than Sonic Wii.

3) This was all up in the air for some time, and in the meantime Iizuka-san was convinced to start working on the Wii version primarily, leaving the other SKUs behind. Essentially they were canned, but there was and still is the option to continue as suggested and work on those versions once the Wii version is finished and released. In other words, NiGHTS on X360/PS3 is dependant on the success of NiGHTS on Wii.

I can almost picture a yellow ideya smashed to shards on the ground in front of a dying NiGHTS. Granted, 2009 could turn everything around and have us see a new NiGHTS release but seriously we're talking lottery odds. Thankfully critical response to Sonic U isn't that great so maybe there's some...

...oh who the hell am I kidding. Here's to what will never be.

[Saifer Dracondrali]

Time to launch the letter writing campaign again?
JoD may not have done well but that doesn't necessarily mean NiGHTS 2 won't...
They've been milking ideas from Sonic till it became embarrassing how much can 1 little NiGHTS sequel hurt?
I'll keep a careful eye out for this and see what comes up...

[Lenneth]

Okay after reading that article, I'm incredibly angry. So they had stuff done already for Xbox360/PS3 but then they were forced to forget about it and make a Wii game? What's that crap about?! If they have to rebuild the entire game they should have least have given them a new release date, but no, it has to be finished in to time! That's lame and crazy at the same time! Whats the point of moving the game to a console that has better sales, if they're not given the time to develop it properly?!?!?! I'll never buy any Sega game again, well except for a new NiGHTS if there will be one, but this time they better take their time!!

[JaxTH]

It would be interesting if those 360/PS3 versions are floating around somewhere...

[Saifer Dracondrali]

If they were working on a NiGHTS for the PS3/360 I doubt they would just up and forget about it if they were that miffed...
I'll keep my fingers crossed but won't let my hopes go up... (Thankfully I'm usually right about this kind of stuff)

[DiGi Valentine]

Time and time again, we've been telling everybody and their grandmothers that NiGHTS was to have a version on 360/PS3. We told you this. What IS news to me, however, is i did not know they canceled those versions just to bring it to the Wii exclusively.

I am pissed off. Really annoyed at this. >_<
I knew they weren't making JoD to give the fans what they wanted, they just wanted to give a break to Sonic. My arse they were making this game for us. SEGA of Japan need a f*!*ing wake up call.

I've just forwarded the link to Kotaku. I'm hoping they report this because people need to wake up to the bullshit already.

Once my own internet connection is set up i'll be going about producing another project folder to send out to SEGA and this time i'm going to need all your help. Everybody. I want everybody to speak up and be heard. Tell them that we're not pieces of sh!t and that they should treat our game with a bit more bloody respect.

I'll let you all know when the project goes underway. In the meantime, start thinking about what it is you want to say to them.
I'll keep you all posted.

Rah. It's going to be a patriotic year for us.

[Zero-Shift]

Just wow... (the shock of the news jars Zero to the core, and deep within, an eloquent beast stirs...)

(Listen to dramatize this rant)

Now, I adore a few franchises to come out of Sega such as Yakuza, Virtua Fighter and, sadly enough, Sonic. I also adore some of the games they decide to publish. However, this revelation is just another offense to add to a long list of business practices that makes me truly dislike Sega itself as a company currently. Past mistakes have turned them into a repulsively frugal entity that will only make a creative gambit once in a blue moon and in the meantime is willing to pump out safe bets, only worrying about the bottom line of profit. It's appalling how clerical the company has become. They are now what Electronic Arts once was not too long ago.

This article goes a long way in explaining exactly why as of late the best Sonic games are the ones not developed by Sonic Team. Still, I think I may owe Sonic Team an apology. In light of this new info I can't help but pity them to an extent. To say they are talentless and don't care seems to be an overstatement in my mind. Otherwise how could the studio get so close to making a genuinely good game in titles like Secret Rings and Unleashed? I'm sure they're partly to blame, but it's hard to point the finger squarely at Sonic Team after finding out they're forced to work under grueling deadlines and minimal budgets mandated by Sega itself. Sonic Team is a thing trapped and stagnating in it's own legacy. Despite my dislike of the man and his monolithic ego, it's becoming easy to see exactly why Yuji Naka left to form Prope.

At the end of the day though, we were fortunate Journey of Dreams turned out as well as it did. It wasn't perfect by any stretch, but it was competent, I enjoyed it, and as of now am extremely grateful that it is even playable. Sadly, as much as it may pain me, I am still and will likely always be a fan of Sonic the Hedgehog. I can't explain why. However, despite my adoration of the Blue Blur, I declare here and now with righteous indignation so as the gods may hear my cry that I shun Sega and their soulless practice and do so beseech they change their ways or suffer the consequences! Fate is not without irony nor is justice blind! Your actions will become the sins that damn you and your kind! I only that AM2, Smilebit and Amusement vision are spared.

......Did I just channel a dead person?

[StarsOfCASSiOPEiA]

I don't really know what I'm feeling after I read that blog. Surely it was a bit harsh, but I do have to agree that Sonic Team is being poked and prodded by those deadlines and lack of budget. That really saddens me- a lot of us have grown up with SEGA and/or NiGHTS, and we still want today's games to have the same feel and gameplay that they did back in the day.

But I'm totally with DiGi on this one.

WE'RE the NiGHTS fanbase. WE'LL be the ones playing these games. And if SEGA suffers, so do we. If we can be the ones who change that, I say we go for it.

[DiGi Valentine]

The 2007 Project i spearheaded was used as a way to inform SEGA of what the fans have been waiting for for so long. We kept saying "a decade" all the time because i wanted to partly believe that they gave a sh!t and were releasing JoD for us fans, despite what i kept hearing behind closed doors. This information only confirms everything i knew back in 2007 and adds on top of it.

The 2007 Project was the fans being fans and making sure that NiGHTS returned to glory. SEGA paid no attention to this because i can clearly see they wanted to use NiGHTS to give Sonic a break and not use their IP to their fullest potential or to give the fans what they wanted. Their decision to cancel a game already in production and move it to the Wii without giving extended development time is pathetic.

If i go about contacting SEGA again it will not be to inform them of what makes NiGHTS so great, that chance has passed us by. If i'm going to contact them now i'm going to go there with a project to show them they were wrong in their decissions and they make their fans suffer after we continously 'stick it out' with them. Enough is enough.
A decade we waited. f*** a decade.

My only concern now is if people will speak up with me. This fanbase tends to go quiet REALLY quickly sometimes and sometimes people find it to be a lost cause to try something like this but i'm passionate about this. I waited like everybody else and i feel insulted further by this article coming back in to light because it's bloody true and it's a bloody shame SEGA has come to this.

[Meggiemaccat]

I had a feeling the people directly responsible for the development of NiGHTS were under pressure by bean-counting executives, but this is ridiculous.

I'm new to the realm of video games - they were never allowed in the house until the past few years, with this past Christmas seeing us with our first shareable gaming console (an Xbox360) - but even I have the common sense to know that not giving something the time it needs results in failure, and from what I've heard that other games are given, NiGHTS most certainly did not have the time it needed, especially given the sudden console change.

The Wii is a more family-oriented console, though, so the change really was a good idea in essence, but I agree in that they should've changed the release date, especially given the fact the Wii has a control system so vastly different from other consoles (I'm talking about the Mindsight). They should've realized a console like this would require a game coded differently from most others, that they needed not only the same time as most other games get, but more time to make sure there aren't hiccups in association with the new control method.

But, sadly, it really does seem that they don't care anymore, so what can we expect from them, despite there being no excuse for this utter lack of consideration for what it takes to make something good at all.

This isn't just NiGHTS, but Sonic, as well; it's true that one needs to mix things up every so often to keep people's interest, that repetition can bring a slow death to a franchise, but what you shouldn't do is destroy a formula that works so beautifully for the sake of change.

Take Pokemon; they're not changing the initial formula at all, just tweaking the storyline and making new Pokemon (to, admittedly, varying degrees of success). (EDIT: I completely forgot Contests. XD /edit) And with the announcement that this current generation will be the last of the new Pokemon, they know when to let something so good have its final, peaceful rest. Granted, there will most likely still be Pokemon games for a while to come, with spinoffs galore, but the fact they're not making any more new Pokemon (or at least not in batches of hundreds), shows that they're willing to let it take its natural course rather than try to keep it alive past its expiration.

Granted, Nintendo probably has much less romantic reasons for letting the fourth generation be the last, but the point is that one shouldn't force a game to go longer at the detriment of its quality. I think now would be the best time to take Sonic back to his roots; give the new fans a taste of the awesomeness of what he was, and the very reputation that's been keeping him alive all these years. (Actually, in retrospect of my typing this bit, Sonic Unleashed probably already gives a little taste of that former glory).

Of course, Sega's not listening to any of that, but at least the fans can give it a shot. All of them; NiGHTS, Sonic, everything Sega has ever produced that has incited something wonderful at some point in time.

We all need to speak up against these money-grubbers - tell them that they're steering the company into a slow and painful suicide and that they need to get their heads out of their wallets before it's too late.

And if they continue not to listen, and Sega does crash and burn, it might not necessarily mean hope is lost. When a company that holds trademark to something dies, where do the trademarks go? I don't know enough about gaming to know, and the answer might not even be out there right now (or vary from situation to situation), but I'm hoping the rights to those games that the fans love will fall into the hands of those that will either nurture them back to the vibrant life they deserve or the quiet end they've earned.

[JaxTH]

Take Pokemon; they're not changing the initial formula at all, just tweaking the storyline and making new Pokemon (to, admittedly, varying degrees of success). (EDIT: I completely forgot Contests. XD /edit) And with the announcement that this current generation will be the last of the new Pokemon, they know when to let something so good have its final, peaceful rest. Granted, there will most likely still be Pokemon games for a while to come, with spinoffs galore, but the fact they're not making any more new Pokemon (or at least not in batches of hundreds), shows that they're willing to let it take its natural course rather than try to keep it alive past its expiration.

Granted, Nintendo probably has much less romantic reasons for letting the fourth generation be the last, but the point is that one shouldn't force a game to go longer at the detriment of its quality.

Probably because you can catch GOD.

[viperxmns]

This all sounds very tragic.. Sega management needs to be totally overhauled if this is their mentality. I too now will ease up on Sonic Team themselves and focus my rage on Sega management.

I can picture it now, what JoD was supposed to be.. a PS3/360 game, with the cut scenes rendered at Sonic Unleashed level..

[TRAViS]

Now that I'm awake and in a better mindset, I can post my thoughts on this.

At the very least, it's getting more coverage ( SegaNerds , Destructoid ) so it shouldn't be long before this makes a ripple effect throughout the internet.

Here I thought I was doing good in supporting the "good old" SEGA by buying recent titles like Samba De Amigo, The House of the Dead 2 & 3, and Sonic Unleashed. It seems my dollars are instead being shoveled into this kind of money-driven madness. I can understand restructuring a game for a different console. It makes sense: you want the largest install base you can get for your target demographic. With NiGHTS as a game that appeals to the under-16 crowd, a move to the Wii makes perfect sense. Sure that requires some cutbacks and alterations, but it can be done. It can't be done when they squeeze the game into a tight budget and even tighter production schedule, making an entire game switch devkits, engines, and even basic code to retool something of that magnitude (and if anybody wants to even try and prove me wrong, try learning how to program and then go and make identical games in C++ and Java. Just try, and tell me how similar they turn out, code-wise).

Rush, rush, rush. The only product that wasn't rushed in the last 5 years at Sonic Team was Sonic Rush. I don't get what it is with game publishers and developers willing to sacrifice substantial amounts of quality, bug testing, and ultimately reviews (which are a major driving factor in sales) to get a game out the door by its intended date.

This is truly shameful. Behind their facade of caring for their fans, developers, and even just to gaming in general, all I see are a few big teeth and eyes green with greed. If only Sonic Team could break off and work for a different publisher...or at the very least have far less influence and control from the head honchos at SEGA. They probably feel like an EA dev house, being forced to churn out a slightly different product of the same IP every freakin year. And when they try something different, they aren't given any room to come up with something that can be fully fleshed out. It's sickening. With all of the great, unique games that SEGA's other development houses are coming out with when given the room to breathe, why must Sonic Team be locked down to the annual onslaught?

NiGHTS should be sold or licensed out to another development team.

/rant

Oh, and I'll be watching this thread for ArchAngelUK's response to all this. If he's allowed to comment on it...
[Edit] If he's even around anymore...

[DiGi Valentine]

Oh, and I'll be watching this thread for ArchAngelUK's response to all this. If he's allowed to comment on it...
[Edit] If he's even around anymore...

Yeah he's still around. He wouldn't be doing his job if he wasn't, Trav.

But let's be fair here. This is something way beyond Arch's control so calling his name into this is pointless, man. I'm sure Arch has his own opinions on the matter but it's probably best not to push him into a corner that he doesn't need to be in.

Our issue is with the higher heads at SEGA, not the Community Managers.
Let's keep it real in here, people.

[StarsOfCASSiOPEiA]

It's especially ironic that the only game that wasn't rushed was entitled "Sonic RUSH."

I can understand why SEGA wanted to move NiGHTS to the Wii. The Wii is more family-friendly, fits more with the targeted age group for NiGHTS, and Nintendo can barely crank them out fast enough. But I agree- with the console switch, SEGA should've been given more time. The Mindsight, in my opinion, was absolutely horrid. I worked with the nunchuck myself, because the Mindsight just didn't have the same manuverability and comfort level. There were great aspects of JoD, I can't deny that, but it certainly wasn't perfect and would've definitely benefited from the extra time.

TRAViS, you brought up an interesting point: If NiGHTS was sold/licensed to another developer, what would happen? I personally began gaming with SEGA, so it's kind of special to me. But I don't want it going in the direction it's currently headed in. I'd rather wait longer for a new and have the release pushed back than waste my money on something that's rushed. If the development of NiGHTS changed hands, though, could we really trust them to even notice we exist? Would it really be better for NiGHTS in the long run?

[Penelopi]

This makes me so mad! I was already angry about how badly NiGHTS was treated this time around, but this takes the cake. So it wasn't that they started out with too little time, it was that their time was cut by a sudden platform-switching. They might've been able to make good mindsight controls with just the original time planned in the beginning for the XBox & PS3 versions. I don't regret it coming out on the Wii. After all, if it hadn't, I probably would've never found NiGHTS. I think they should've had it for ALL the systems, or at least have given the Wii version more time.

DiGi, I'm willing to speak up, too. When you get that new complaint project started, I'll definitely participate. These guys pushing around Sonic Team need to be thrown off their high horse.

[Meggiemaccat]

Probably because you can catch GOD.

True, true. XD Although that in and of itself does not mean there aren't pokemon out there the humans still don't know about. ^^;;;

Oh, and something I forgot to add to the end of my initial post; if you find my argument/rant unsound (or completely stupid), please don't hesitate to let me know in the fashion that suits you. XDD

[TRAViS]

Yeah he's still around. He wouldn't be doing his job if he wasn't, Trav.

But let's be fair here. This is something way beyond Arch's control so calling his name into this is pointless, man. I'm sure Arch has his own opinions on the matter but it's probably best not to push him into a corner that he doesn't need to be in.

Our issue is with the higher heads at SEGA, not the Community Managers.
Let's keep it real in here, people.

Ah, I got ahead of myself. But seeing as he's the closest contact to core SEGA that most of us have, I figured he's the best thing we have and the closest we could get to an official response.

Kotaku got a story up (albeit with a rumor tag ): http://kotaku.com/51...ox-360-ps3-game

I think the chance of swaying the higher managers at SEGA is really slim. In any division, the higher up the chain you get, the lower a priority certain things become, and the more focus is on the bottom line. That's how most larger conglomerates work, so it wouldn't surprise me with more of the same here. Companies have just gotten too big and have too much money in them to try and focus on anything else. Nudging these higher managers to creativity and fan service is going to be nigh impossible unless they see hundreds of thousands of dollars in profit behind these nudges. Because let's be honest, getting NiGHTS a mainstream appeal so that it sells even a quarter as strongly as any recent Sonic title is going to be pretty tough.

Beyond that though, I can't think of anybody at SEGA left to target. The closest thing I can think of would be giving the head managers at Sonic Team a NiGHTSy push towards independence and rebellion from the excessive control of their managers and break off to make a game right. But that wouldn't work. Hence came the idea that the NiGHTS IP should be transferred to another studio. One where the ideas can be fully fleshed out and the yearly time constraints that Sonic Team faces can be obliterated.

Oh, and just to clarify, I never intended to bash JoD or even call badly upon it. I think it was a good game in its own regard, but its flaws and lack of creativity and polish were so painfully evident that the game's been sitting in my collection gathering dust for almost a solid year now. However, we can partly attribute that to design issues. Design issues which came after accommodating the demographic switch which came after the console switch which came in the middle of the development cycle. There was so much more that could've been done with JoD on the Wii specifically. I have a strong feeling the whole "heightened sense of gliding, spiraling..." etc etc was scrapped on a time constraint so the point-and-drag "mindsight" was chosen instead. I'm willing to bet good money that there was a far more engaging and awesome control scheme to be had.

It's also very interesting to note that NiGHTS sold 27,500 copies in the U.S. alone in the last 5 weeks. Despite the lack of popularity, it really picked up again during the Holiday rush. Hmm. Yet Sonic Unleashed sold over 10 times that on the Wii alone. Nearly 25 times if you count the other systems.

It makes me sad to think that all hope is lost even though I know it isn't. I probably need a few days for this to blow over and let myself calm/simmer down before I start thinking about what I can do.

DiGi, count me in for project 2009. I'm back, and it's time to get serious.

[Zero-Shift]

Giving a license to the right people can make a huge difference. Letting a third party developer work on a franchise and bringing in different talent with different proficiencies and viewpoints on game development can result in some spectacular results. A good recent example is Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo HD Remix. That game was given to Backbone Entertainment which is a company that partly specializes in arcade game emulation. Of course the game also turned out well due to involvement by Udon, OC Remix, David Sirlin and others, but you get my point. Hell, Capcom let a bunch of Guys in Sweden called GRIN make Bionic Commando: Rearmed and that game also turned out wonderfully. Sadly, I don't think a change in developers would make much of difference at this point.

Sonic Team, despite being an in-house developer sound like they are being treated like a third party. A perk a being an in-house developer is a certain degree creative leeway which apparently ST doesn't have. ST really has their nuts in a vice because it sounds like they're dealing with all the drawbacks of being a third party developer while actually being in-house and getting none of those benefits. Sadly, I fear if Sonic/NiGHTS/etc. were outsourced to another developer, Sega management would still burden the developer with ruthless deadlines and milestones all because of their outlook on Sonic itself. According to that blog, Sega management views Sonic as little more than a vehicle to easy cash with little investment. As long as company execs have this mindset Sonic's status will likely never improve and as long as Sonic makes money just by his name, the execs won't change their minds. I have to say I'm seriously considering never buying a Sonic game near launch ever again. I'll wait for several months after the price drops and those money-grubbing assholes on the top make minimal profits at the expense of my fandom.

It's absolutely beyond me how these guys could be willing to publish for Platinum Games. I guess at least "somebody" gives a crap about the medium.

At least I know I can always count on Capcom.

Oh, and bravo DiGi, I hope. A little exposure on Kotaku can't hurt, although it dismays me that many of the comments completely miss the point of the article and spout their opinions of JoD. The article isn't about NiGHTS, it's about Sega's management practices. Morons.

[Nemoide]

Sega has been a strange company for quite a while. They seem to be a company so sure that it cannot fail that they don't care what sort of crap they put out. I just imagine that the various corporate heads are trapped in the world of 15 years ago when Sonic was a big name character. I'm honestly amazed that there are young Sonic fans out there since it has been (IMO) almost a decade since the last solidly good Sonic game (Adventure) outside of handheld games.

I remember when I was a Sega fan because I loved playing Sega games. They've even released some good ones after dropping out of hardware. But Sega isn't the same company I used to love.

BTW DiGi, I may not be able to help you storm Sega HQ in an all-out offensive but I would totally be willing to join in a letter-writing campaign or whatever you have planned? I live off of angry ramblings.

[DiGi Valentine]

I read the Kotaku report this morning so i'm glad the news has gotten that far. I did contact Kotaku but i'm pretty certain a few other people did as well so naturaly i won't take credit for the article appearing on there.
Peoples comments on Kotaku are void for me, as far as i'm concerned. Their opinions are there's alone and if they can not read an article correctly and leave comments based on the article then it really isn't worth reading.

Truth. JoD would have still incorporated Will and Helen, would have still incorporated the 'masks' feature and most probably would have still had no Ideya Capture based lap system because we knew about the 360/PS3 game and what was being created back in 2006. As far as design goes, JoD on the Wii is a completely stripped down and watered version of what we would have got on 360/PS3 ...so all these people saying that JoD would have been a different game in terms of content if it remained on the other consoles are sadly incorrect.
However, what would have happened was despite the fact that they were giving us different things in JoD at least they would have added enough development time (and most certainly a better budget) to at least have the game closer to finished.
You can see the cracks in JoD, you can tell it wasn't a game made in 2 years.

So, i will say that even if the game still remained on 360/PS3 we probably would have still be annoyed as far as content goes if you're an old skool NiD fan. All i'm saying is if they treated the game with a bit more care then it would have been a little easier for the old fans to become accustomed to the new stuff, if only they took their time on it all. *sigh*

I know, the Street Fighter HD Remix was handled well by an outside company (i have yet to play it but i hear nothing but great things about the game). However, Street Fighter is adored worldwide. NiGHTS only has a cult following and unless a company was going to take that into consideration i sadly don't see anybody wanting to buy/rent the IP from SEGA.

I will be organising a project within the next two to three weeks. Naturally, i won't be storming a SEGA HQ so this will be on a written based idea, kinda like last time.
If you're going to be on this project too then write something valid, something that a lot of thought has been put in to. Going in there and writing "f*** You, SEGA!" is not clever nor will get us anywhere.

When the time comes, i'll make a topic about this and we can discuss what the overall topic of the project will be. Some of you want to see the NiGHTS IP released to another company and some of you want SEGA to ease up on Sonic Team. When i make the topic about it, we can discuss what this Project will include in it.

Until then, keep talking about this and if anybody hears any updates let us know.

[TRiPPY]

I was going to stay out of this topic but I'll say my twopence and leave it alone, just incase anyone presumes my opinons for me.

I don't blame SonicTeam I blame the people pushing the buttons higher than them. It takes a lot more than creativity and design spark to produce a successful computer game. Sonic isn't one game, it's an entire brand, a very famous one. It takes LOTS of people, buisness people, to make descisions for them as part of one whole. Sometimes compromises can be made, sometimes things are canceled, sometimes things are pushed forward. All in all Sonicteam are a bunch of very talented folk... think about how HARD it is to get INTO Sonicteam, they wouldn't hire sh!t people on purpose. They wouldn't go into a job with no joy for what theyre doing either, unless of course they fell into the job position, but I can't imagine many of the team are like that.
Sonicteam sort of ended up being very elevated in jobs they have to do. Like what Naka and Oshima said about no longer having the time to actualy DO what they loved about the job in the first place. So imagine yourself trying to create something that you NEED to create since afterall this is a company and not some indi game creator that puts out a game once a decade. You all get your ideas together and someone is telling you no, or making you change stuff that is actualy cool because it doesn't fit sales demographics to maximise sales. It pisses you off. I know because creating our own comic i had to change stuff to make it for a certain agegroup etc etc. If i was actualy published TONS of things would have to change. Sonicteam, the more popular they got had to appeal to more and more people and that is VERY HARD.

People are bitching about Unleashed, but i bet there are just as many people who think it rocks. Same with JoD. NiGHTS 2 wasn't everything it could have been, but there are still TONS of JoD fans. In fact it surprises me. I don't *REALLY* love JoD but its still a good little game and people still like it. Zillions of people didn't buy NiGHTS 1 back in 96, so in my opinion any more fans that JoD gathered together is a good thing.

Every company has stuff going on behind the scenes. Be it Morrisons or McDonalds or Virgin. It's hard to have a balance of creative and buisness. SonicTeam have like a Sonic game out every year now whether they want to or not. Sonic is popular and he sells to the little uns who don't know any better or the people who buy something just because they know the name. Eitherway to a company money is good money. The main problem with the top people in SEGA is being too stubborn to just focus more time on one INSANELY GREAT idea that could potentialy sell more than 3 titles would then MARKET IT PROPERLY.

I don't think all of SEGA should be tarred with the same brush because over the past 2 years I've seen a lot of positive things happen around the company that shows things are improving for the better. Better late than never right? We read this article already when JoD was due out and bitching was done back then too. What has changed? JoD came out and it wasn't amazing, but it's nowhere near as bad as it could have been. It could have been like ARCHIE NiD PROPORTION TERRIBLE, lol.

I'm betting that a lot of people in SEGA right now are there because they were fans when they were younger and have proper passion for what they do. But if they can't do everything they want because someone above them tells them no then is 'SEGA' crap? No it's a company and companies change and grow. I think SEGA can be fixed but it will take many many years.
Complaining is ok, we all like to get angry every now and then when it's about something we love, but what works better is positive things like trying to show fans aren't complete retards and sometimes know what is good. Other companies shape their products with proper fan input. With SEGA this has been happening gradualy. Over time it will improve.

I'm happy NiGHTS 2 was made in general because even if the game didn't sell much to be called a success it got NiGHTS' name out there again and brought more fans in. I was sitting thinking lastnight about JoD and the fans in general and I think a good few of the old old fans get their pants in a twist because the game isn't up to their *personal vision* of the game they grew up with for 10 years. Sonic doesn't have that because there are tons of Sonic games. NiGHTS had 1.5 games and we filled in the rest sometimes forgetting Sonicteam were responsible for it. JoD was bearable for me. It wasn't Shadow was it? XD

I'm not always 100% happy with everything i play, or read or see on TV because i can always imagine it better *in my head*. JoD turned out pretty nicely for the INSANE time frame it had and the technical limitations of the Wii. Can't be fun being in Sonicteam and having that much expectations hanging over your head, especialy when Iizuka originaly wanted it for the 360. Creatively that would really burn your brain. I don't think slightly shinier ps3 graphics would have been the saving grace of JoD, it would have been proper marketing and more TIME on -any- console.

So my point of view = higher ups in SEGA are a pain the artistic arse, don't think everyone in Sonicteam sucks at their job, JoD is half decent and given proper development time it would have been gorgeous (but not nessecarily sold millions because NiGHTS is a niche game and always has been.)

/notreallyranting

[JAZZ-man]

*gets filled with rage* how dare they treat NiGHTS like that. NiGHTS4life man

[Saifer Dracondrali]

Send me the e-mail address to Sega and I will spam their asses with how upset I am...

[7Force]

Reading all this makes me sad the company I loved so much during the Mega Drive days have been reduced to nothing more then money grabbing scum who don’t care about nothing but making money off the back of bad games. SEGA need to lay off Sonic Team and let them get on with it.

At least I know I can always count on Capcom.

Thats true, every time Capcom do something new it always gets me excited becasue they always seem to take there time on projects and not rush them. Capcom have a fan base and they always seem to care about what they want.

[Veggie]

I think it's clear from the amount of cameos NiGHTS has had since the Saturn game that SEGA do care about the character, and aren't intentionally being half-assed about the recent game (from what I've heard, I haven't played it). But it's a real shame to hear stuff like this and the way the higher-ups are making these detrimental decisions. This was a game we'd been waiting for since 1996 with a legacy as one of the best games on the Saturn (it usually always mentioned in the must-have lists), yet they go and make this stupid decision and ruin it :/ Ridiculous. And to hear it was going to be on a console I actually own, even more annoying! I really hope SEGA have learnt from this mistake and give the next one, should there ever be one, more thought and time that it needs.

I've been waiting long enough for Shenmue III and a follow-up to Burning Rangers but if this is the kind of thing that happens, well, I'd rather wait another 10 years then them rush out an unpolished game!

[andersam]

After reading this and all your posts (the endless posts.......lol) I can't help but feel a tad betrayed from some aspects of SEGA. True, SEGA has put out stuff that seems to aim to disappont us, and it's also true that there have been radical good changes in the company. Even though I wasen't even NEAR NiGHTS when it came out in '96 (I'd say I joined just before the JOD hype ignited) The intese excitement of experiancing a NiGHTS game for the first time, then to find the game was hopelessly rushed, let me down.

I truly belive sonic team did it's best to make a great game, I mean, just look at the AMAZING scripts a certain Kentilan found hacking the JOD disc! I'm almost afraid to ask for another game because I've now seen what thouse higher-ups can do to ruin a perfectly opean and beautiful franchise...no, not a franchise, a beautiful STORY...

I am happy that they released JOD on the Wii console though because the systums such as the 360/ps3 would be a bad choice for our family (yaknow, with the selection of family titles and...yeah) and standardly more familys own Wii consoles then they would 360/ps3's, especially if the family has small-elmentary school aged children. NiGHTS was marketed as a children's game after all, so releasing it on the Wii was a better marketing choice.

*stupid rant over*

EDIT: OH! before I forget, If DiGi still wants to do his 2009 thing, I'm in.

[viperxmns]

About Sonic- http://www.tssznews.com/2009/01/14/another...s-out-on-sonic/

My takeaway-

A sequel to Unleashed without any gimmicks.. mmm.. WHY COULDN'T THAT BE UNLEASHED 1

[7Force]

Quite an intersting read that

[Dreamer#96]

if the latest article is true,that means i bought the wii version of sonic unleashed to pay off the costs of the ps3 and 360 versions, now im mad. *edit* two "sega" employees, plus the latest to pop out from the wood work,whats going on?! this year is starting out more crazy then others,wow

[iLLViLLAiN]

I don't know how to feel right now. I'm pretty mad. I'm pretty sad. Plus I'm annoyed. I don't really like voicing my opinion on things much anymore but I'll try to dump whatever amount of cents I've got in my pocket.

I notice some of you guys want NiGHTS or Sonic or whatever to go to another company. I wouldn't be able to sleep at night knowing that Sonic is under another developer like Nintendo, EA, etc from now on. It just wouldn't feel right. I'd be fine with Sonic Team becoming their own company granted they had the funds or permission to pull off a move like that. I don't know how that aspect of the industry works so I'll just ignore that thought. I, along with a few others above me, just want Sonic Team to have freedom. Freedom to work on games for as long as needed. The freedom to let their minds roam free with the imagination and creativity we used to see in Sonic Team's games, especially NiGHTS. If they are bored it's because they can't do what they wish to do. The way the blog describes it I can't help but see a bunch or STeam employees locked in cells, listening to a man in a suit for several hours until it's time to go home. At least that's how I'm seeing it. It wouldn't make sense for a person to work at Sonic Team if they don't like Sonic. As far the whole 360/PS3 thing goes I don't really know what to say. Me having a PS3 before a Wii, I would have loved JoD to have at least been multiplat. I'm fine with the "Wii is for families" mindset but I couldn't seriously sit down with my copy of JoD until November 2008 because of how hard it was to find a Wii. Before then I had to beg my cousin to play on his system and he's "traumatized" of games with flying through rings because of Superman 64 so it wasn't an easy task.

Anyway, I will admit I was a douche when JoD was released and the reviews rolled in. Not even had played the game I bashed it and ragged it for even looking slightly different from the original. I was wrong. Besides after I actually played that game through in it's entirety I realized just how good of a game it was. I do agree with you guys that even though the game wasn't anywhere near perfect you've got to respect Sonic Team for what they did in such little time. But yeah, about your project DiGi I don't know if me joining would really be that much of a help but I guess I'll give it a shout.

Oh yeah. One more thing. Can you imagine the smooth rotation of an Xbox 360 controller or a Dual Shock 3 in Journey of Dreams? Bet it would've been groovy.

[Melancholy Teapot]

It's maddening to think of all the potential lost in any sort of Sonic Team game that was thrown away because of this. The only reason Sonic Rush (or any other portable Sonic game) was good is because Sonic team didn't develop those. If they've done it for those games, whats stopping them from doing it with the big titles?

At least part of that blog post is on Wikipedia now, too.

[iNSOMNiAC]

Ten years.

OVER ten years we worked to get another NiGHTS game done. We were /so/ happy about JoD. Sure it doesn't live up to NiD, but at least we /thought/ Sega had listened to us a bit.

This...This...I won't stand for it. TEN YEARS SEGA. Give us some damn credit-!!

DiGi, you send me a message here on dA when you get that '09 project folder started, Somni's got a few things to say.




And so, the struggle begins again.

Am I right?

------------------------------------
EDiT:

ASDFGHJKL

OLD TOPIC IS OLD D:<

I didn't even notice-!

Bah, whatever, it deserves to revived.

[VERTiGO]

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

...

I'm really steamed! I have to fill out this dumb form, and it's got all these-- *clears throat*-- I can't believe they let us down like that. They should realize by this point if they quit with the monotony that is Sonic, they'd be a little better off. Sonic was great, but now I'm tired of seeing him in games that barely work (Secret Rings, anyone?). I waited longer than I could imagine waiting for this, and I tried to hide the fact, but I was seriously let down. The whole thing's a fluke. They have big wigs in there that don't even know what the bloody hell they're talking about. It's like... "Fill out this form, take this test, and write an over 9000 word essay. You have five minutes and can only use this yellow-green crayola crayon with the f***ing paper chewed off by my spoiled rotten three year old grandaughter that has more money that you can ever dream of."

Ok, but seriously. This is not cool. I'm totally down with your idea, DiGi.

On second thought...

New plan. Everybody; shotguns. Tonight we dine etc!

Oh, come on. You know you love Stretch Werehogstrong.

I think I'mma go cut myself now. ._____________________________________.

EDiT: Just thought I'd leave this here.

[Dex la Cabra]

i don't even need to say my thoughts on this, as everyone's thinking similar stuff. DiGi, you tell me what to do and i'll help in any way to stop this stupidity that is sega management! i feel for sonic team, artists being oppressed by tyrants...

[NNR07]

I didn't say my two cents on this? Eh, swear I must've.

I sorta got the feeling that this was how SEGA felt on it, personally. I'm almost glad to know that it's a higher-ups problem, because now we know exactly WHO should be targeted. And that's one step closer to achieving our goal.

Just my personal opinion.

[Bosco]

[Noctourne Wonderland]

Very eloquent TRiPPY!

I must say this doesn't really surprise me. I follow the Walt Disney Company- the that's intense corporate sturm-und-drang for you. Sega is, understandably, the same way. What they did was uncalled for, but not unusual, sadly.