38 replies to this topic

[PRiNCE]

Well, simply put, how were they created? Does everyone have five? Stuff like that. We're IGNORING any rules the comics stated about perfect dreamers, mainly because the comics aren't canon.
I think that everyone has five (in the game world thingy) but each of them are different sizes, like for Claris and elliot, the Red ideya would be the largest. And then it goes down until you get to the smallest one, which you have the least of. What do you all think? Origins, edibility, are they gooey, all the random stuff about the energy of our dreams.
(Sorry if this has been created before, I searched and didn't find it so... yeah.)

[NNR07]

Same here, I believe everyone has the five, just using them and obtaining them are the hard part. And, the same thing with the size.

How they're created, I believe, is mostly from how one acts and their personality (mostly in the dream, a little bit from waking life). Like, someone who is hopeful and optimistic more than anything in life will no doubt have a Yellow Ideya being the strongest of their 5. And, if an Ideya is destroyed (which would probably be mind-shattering hard to destroy), a person's dream ends. Or they might die. Probably the 1st one more than the later....

[AYRiES]

I agree with you on the size thing. I mean, everyone has SOME of each trait, everyone dares do something (walking, whatever), everyone's a bit pure (well, noone's seen everything) etc, so they'd have the ideya, but like you said some would be big some would be small. And maybe if they DO only work for dominant traits, then they might be there, just not activated- no energy until you develop the trait enough to 'power' it. So even if Claris and Elliot didn't have them powered up, they could still be stolen and they'd still want them back so if they ever did need them, their brain wouldn't ASPLODE from lack of one etc.

After all, noone stays the same from birth through their entire life, not really.

[Curiosity Inc.]

I'm willing to accept that everyone has five Ideya, but only when in physical form. Otherwise, every Dreamer is only represented by one Ideya. My theory goes like this:

In the dream world, every Dreamer has a single Ideya of the color representing the foremost quality of the time. If he/she was having a dream involving purity, his/her Ideya would be white. If he/she was dreaming of growth, his/her Ideya would be green, and so on. However, Claris and Elliot are different in that they have all five Ideya while in Nightopia. How can this be?

First, it's a given that we all have some of the five traits represented by the different Ideya. Also, unless I'm misinterpreting what I know of the game's story, each Dreamer is only represented by a single Ideya while in the Dream World. This leads me to conclude that we only have all five kinds of Ideya while we are in physical form. Because Claris and Elliot have physical, human bodies in Nightopia, they have all five kinds of Ideya.

Any questions?

[Huruyami]

I think that they are obtained by using the skill/ability they represent.

[EZEKiAL]

I think that they're balls of energy that give NiGHTS a reason to fly through dreams so that they could make a game out of it.
...but that's just my opinion.

[Curiosity Inc.]

I think that they're balls of energy that give NiGHTS a reason to fly through dreams so that they could make a game out of it.
...but that's just my opinion.

See... that's the practical reason. *shakes head*

This thread is proof that no detail is too small for a debate amongst fans. However, because Ideya play such a critical role in the gameplay and in the story, I think this may be a debate worth having.

So let's carry on and forget that the emperor is, in fact, naked.

[DMN]

I beleive that there are many more than just Claris' and Elliot's five types of Ideya, and that a person develops an Ideya as their personality develops (courageous people get red ones, ect). I think the Ideyas would change color if the person had a rapid change of mind, and that if the Ideya is stolen, then the dreamers has until they wake up to get it back. If they don't get it, then they feel more and more "hollow" whenever they should be feeling the emotion the stolen Ideya represented, and the hollow feeling grows as the memories of the Ideya fade, up until they no longer retain the feeling at all.
I'm pretty sure that Claris and Elliot have their five at once because their minds are equal in all five of those aspects.
The Ideya are pure dream energy, the exact opposite of Wizeman's Nightmare energy, and that's why they give NiGHTS a small window of time to escape the Nightmare-energy-sealed "Ideya Palace," which was probably usually used to hold the Ideya out of the dreamers' reach under normal conditions. Claris and Elliot used the strongest dream energy, courage, to get by the sheilding and let NiGHTS loose, but it seems to require more energy than one Ideya puts out to keep NiGHTS out of it...

[KyraWolf]

I all thought that you can have as many ideya or as little, depending on your personality, and which ideya tarit you posses, (EX. You can be naive, and yet, be a coward, so you'd have a white ideya and then no red). >> My theory is simple. I think Ideya is just visable in dreams because it is supported by dream essance or something.

:| My posts are so short, really.

[Huruyami]

Yeah. Like there are more ideya than the five. You don't see a ideya for imagination now do you?

[DMN]

Yeah. Like there are more ideya than the five. You don't see a ideya for imagination now do you?

I think that one would be purple because NiGHTS basically embodies iMAGiNATiON...

[Q-Lok]

My personal theory on Ideya goes thus:
There are only the five types of Ideya, and a dreamer can have anywhere from one to five of them.
The Ideya that a dreamer has, as well as how much energy each one contains, are determined by the personality of that dreamer.
As a dreamer's personality changes through life experience, Ideya strengthen and diminish.
All five Ideya are necessary for "fully lucid" dreaming, which is dream control under the philosophical viewpoint that it is a world of its own and should not be changed unnecessarily.
Dreamers have a primary source of power separate from Ideya that allows them to dream; Ideya have notihing to do with their basic ability to do so.
Ideya generate power themselves, from nothing, in a manner similar to Zero-Point energy, and can be used to power dreams and dream-beings, be they 'Pians or Marens or Demia or what-have-you, regardless of who is using them (hence the reason that Wizeman and the Minions are capable of stealing and using Ideya power).

[Curiosity Inc.]

Where did this whole "Ideya size" thing come from? I don't remember any different-sized Ideya in the game. I don't remember any reference to Ideya size in the game manuals or even the comics. Ideya orbs only come in one size. Period.

And we know that there are only five varieties of Ideya. The Japanese and American manuals varied on many counts, but they both agreed on this: There are only five kinds of Ideya. Besides, the Ideya shrine never has any more or less than five slots. That should be proof enough.

And why are we assuming that the Ideya color depends on personality? Is that ever explicitly stated anywhere? Why can't it be determined by, say... what a Dreamer wishes for or what the Dreamer in question is dreaming of (my guess)?

Also, DMN's theory raises an interesting question: What happens to Ideya that are in Ideya Captures? Personally, I think those devices are like miniature worlds of Nightmare. Picture this: A Dreamer is enjoying a perfectly nice dream while his/her Ideya is floating around in Nightopia. Then, a Nightmaren swoops down, picks up the Ideya and drops it into an Ideya capture. At the same time, the Dreamer's pleasant dream turns into a Nightmare.

Such a setup would explain why Nightmare gets stronger and Nightopia weakens with every Ideya orb taken to an Ideya Capture.

Comments?

[Q-Lok]

Personally, I think that the Captures are just a storage system to be used for keeping the Ideya in one place until Wizeman can send someone to pick it up to bring back to Nightmare. I don't believe that there are differently-sized Ideya, but that they do have different strengths and power levels based on the dreamer generating them.

The reason that we generally assume that Ideya are based on dreamer personality is that they stand for aspects of personality rather than topics or emotions. Intelligence, Wisdom, Bravery, Purity and Hope are all parts of a person's personality, not necessarily something that you dream about or feel. In the case of Bravery: you can feel an overpowering need to do the right thing, to make a stand for whatever -- thus "feeling brave." You can be dreaming about being brave, or performing acts of valor. But, where in the NiGHTS dreamworlds are those concepts embodied? The only place that any of those are seen is in the actions of Claris and Elliot, when they prove that they are brave. Not acting brave, mind you, but actually being that way.

[Huruyami]

This is what I like about this game. Even though we know that the details and such are all corporate ideas for production we can discuss it as even though it wasnt.

So for the ideya thing, I dont think they are truly real, just in the dreams they are manifestations of personality, and there are infinite possibilities.

[Q-Lok]

So for the ideya thing, I dont think they are truly real, just in the dreams they are manifestations of personality, and there are infinite possibilities.

Okay, then how do you explain the fact that Wizeman and the Nightmaren are capable of stealing them?

[Tangocat777]

I rember reading that the ideya are unique to each person, and that someone with all five was very rare. I think ideya should have more functionality in Journey of Dreams. They could do things like allow use of certain abilities and restrict others. It would also be nice to be able to have more than one at a time and of diffrent intensities.

[EZEKiAL]

Long ago, I used to think that there were ONLY five Ideya, like there are only seven Chaos Emeralds. And I thought that they were used for basically the same thing.

This, of course, is whenever I had first heard of NiGHTS and seen him in SA1.

[PRiNCE]

Where did this whole "Ideya size" thing come from? I don't remember any different-sized Ideya in the game. I don't remember any reference to Ideya size in the game manuals or even the comics. Ideya orbs only come in one size. Period.

Well, that's YOUR opinion. I said it in the first post, and just because it didn't say it in the manual doesn't mean that it's not possible. Claris and Elliot had, IMO, all the same size Ideya because they had equal amounts of all of the traits.
I do agree, however, that the ideya captures are like mini-nightmare. The ideya, while inside, have no real effect on the dreamer, meaning they lose that trait.

[AirMax]

Here's what I say:
The Ideya are enegy for the dream, and the Ideya that the Dreamer has is based on his or her personality. People could have from anywhere from 1 to 5 Ideyas. If the Dreamers Ideya are taken away, that part of the dreamer fades away until they get it back. The Captures are storage things for the Ideya, until someone could come and pick it up {Say, Wizemans hands?} and as long as it's in the dream, the dreamer has their personality still. After all, the dream is a subconsious part of the mind.
The Ideya Palace though, protects the Ideya, so no nightmaren can get it, exept NiGHTS.

So, basicly,a lot of what I said, is what you guy said.

[Sage]

I agree with Curiosity on a few points. I also believe that there are only 5 Ideya. Really, any more than five Ideya (and five broad aspects) is just needlessly splitting hairs as far as I'm concerned.

As for number of Ideya, I think that everyone has from one to five in varying numbers. Going by canon information, we know that VERY few people have a red Ideya (which means most people have between one and four) and it's even rarer to find someone who has all five. The rarity of dreamers with complete sets of Ideya reinforces the fact that the Ideya Palace is a prison; NiGHTS can only be set free by a dreamer with a complete set. If everyone had all five, Wizeman would have had to use something else to imprison our favorite maren.

I also believe that just because a person does not have a particular Ideya doesn't mean that the person is lacking in that area. For example, a person who does not have a blue Ideya (Intelligence) is not necessarily stupid. Everyone has varying degrees of Intelligence (the ability to learn), Wisdom (the ability to implement knowledge and see the "bigger picture"), Hope (optimism and perseverance), Purity (as it relates to morality or conscience), and Courage (the ability to confront fear, pain, danger, uncertainty, intimidation, shame, scandal, and discouragement). Everyone is capable of all of these.

As for explaining why a person has the Ideya (s)he has, my current theory is that they develop randomly. In my opinion, how much of any of the five aspects a person shows has no impact on which ones develop, nor how powerful they are. I'll be keeping my eyes open for ideas on this topic.

I believe that nonetheless, Ideya are potent and powerful, and that their loss might have a detrimental effect on the dreamer. I've imagined several scenarios from people losing the ability to dream to feeling like they've lost a part of themselves and falling into despair as a result. Anything is possible here. As far as their effects on the Night Dimension, just the fact that Wizeman is collecting them indicates that they are indeed powerful and useful. It leads me to think that Ideya are incredible energy sources, and perhaps that they can have world changing effects on the world of dreams. This in turn gives rise to the idea that perhaps Dreamers aren't as helpless as one might imagine; if they only knew how to tap into the power of their Ideya, the Nightmaren would definitely have something to fear.

And maybe that's one reason why Wizeman is up to this in the first place. >=3

That's all I have to give for now. More after I've slept for a bit and ya'll have had time to chew on this. ^^

[wyldflowa]

Has anyone noticed in the game that Elliot and Claris both begin each stage with all five Ideya? That is, before a load of minions come along and snatch them away...

This leads me to believe that everyone starts off with all five Ideya and that it's the events that happen in the dream that dictate whether they stay or go, are strong or weak... In Claris and Elliot's dreams they begin with all five, are attacked by weird creatures, then are left with nothing until their courage Ideya builds up again and NiGHTS waves them over to the Ideya palace.

I think that everytime you wake up the Ideya disappear and when you dream again you get a fresh set which change according to your actions in your dream.


Or... just as dreams are... Ideya could be exclusive to Elliot and Claris - they could just be dreaming them. XD In the game we are seeing what's going on in their heads as they sleep - dreamscapes and strange creatures based upon their families and thoughts - it doesn't mean that it's the rule for all dreams; Ideya could, very possibly, just be a figment of their imaginations that we're nosing in on.

[Curiosity Inc.]

I disagree with wyldflowa. Again, the game manuals vary greatly, but they both state that Wizeman is attempting to gain strength by capturing Ideya. The manuals further state that this operation had been going on for some time -- well before Claris and Elliot's arrival. Therefore, the Ideya cannot be mere figments of Claris and Elliot's imaginations.

Furthermore, I disagree with her assessment of why Claris and Elliot have five Ideya. The game manual -- the Japanese one, at least -- clearly states that Dreamers with all five Ideya are exceedingly, exceptionally rare.

In all the speculation, remember this: Canon is law. Anything that is agreed upon or is not contradicted in the game manuals cannot be argued against. Furthermore, anything and everything in the game is resolute. I realize that the rein is a bit freer here than in most other properties. We're given a lot of liberty to twist and turn the story details as we like. However, as we do this, we cannot forget that all speculation must be based on canon.

Now, here's something that I think needs to be brought up: Wisdom, Intelligence, Growth, Purity and Courage. Why these five? Why not sincerity or compassion or piety or any number of other traits? And why are Wisdom and Intelligence both represented? Couldn't that be interpreted as redundant?

What makes these five traits so special? Discuss.

[PRiNCE]

Wisdom and intelligence are two different things, Curiosity. Intelligence is just knowing facts, while wisdom is the knwledge of what is happening. And the ability to see what needs to be done in that situation.
Now, I wonder why there IS no iMAGiNATiON ideya, no love,truth.Heck, even hate!

[NNR07]

Now, here's something that I think needs to be brought up: Wisdom, Intelligence, Growth, Purity and Courage. Why these five? Why not sincerity or compassion or piety or any number of other traits? And why are Wisdom and Intelligence both represented? Couldn't that be interpreted as redundant?

What makes these five traits so special? Discuss.

Like what PRiNCE said, Intelligence is knowing facts, numbers, math, words, etc. etc.! Wisdom is knowing and using logic, knowing the ways of nature, knowing how to do things and use logic, etc. etc.!

As for why it's Wisdom, Intelligence, Hope, Purity, and Courage; Probably because they're the most 'looked up to' traits. Like, most people try to and want to be Brave and Intelligent and Wise. Also, each Ideya may be several traits combined in one (see below).

Also, as far as I'm concerned, Purity may be a combination of several traits in one. Compassion, Piety, Honesty, Love, Innocence; Combined into one White lil' Ideya. That's probably why there isn't 200 Ideyas out there O.O''!

[Sage]

My thoughts exactly. That's why I described Intelligence, Wisdom, Hope, Purity, and Courage as BROAD concepts. Many aspects that have been mentioned as Ideya candidates are connected to these concepts, though perhaps loosely. Also, you might consider these five concepts neutral in a manner of speaking. All of these, while most people would call them "good," can apply to everyone no matter where they stand (good, evil, neutral/white, black, grey).

Here's the listing again to help support my standing:

Intelligence (the ability to learn)
Wisdom (the ability to implement knowledge and see the "bigger picture")
Hope (optimism and perseverance)
Purity (as it relates to morality or conscience)
Courage (the ability to confront fear, pain, danger, uncertainty, intimidation, shame, scandal, and discouragement).

Now, here's something that I think needs to be brought up: Wisdom, Intelligence, Growth, Purity and Courage. Why these five?

Slight typo, Curiosity. ^^ Depending on which version of the game you're going by, Growth and Wisdom are both represented by the green Ideya. You've listed both of these. Which do you prefer, for clarity's sake? And don't forget about dear old Hope! *snuggles Yellow Ideya*

[Curiosity Inc.]

Slight typo, Curiosity. ^^ Depending on which version of the game you're going by, Growth and Wisdom are both represented by the green Ideya. You've listed both of these. Which do you prefer, for clarity's sake? And don't forget about dear old Hope! *snuggles Yellow Ideya*

*slaps forehead* How could I forget about Hope? So now, we have a contradiction in regard to what the Ideya stand for. This opens up a whole new can of worms.

Personally, I prefer Growth. I realize that Intelligence and Wisdom are different, but they're just too similar for my taste. Wisdom, in my opinion, is simply a calm and practical application of intelligence. If we're only going to have five, they need to be as different as possible while still holding on to canon. Casts a wider net, you see.

Moreover, growth is a very important part of everyone's life. The awkward change into adolescence, and later to adulthood. The desire to grow up. The drive to be taller and stronger and smarter. To me, this is just as vital as purity or hope.

To that end, I'm going with the Japanese version: Purity (white), Growth (green), Wisdom (blue), Hope (yellow), and Courage (red).

[PRiNCE]

You do have a point Curiosity. Wisdom and intelligence are quite similar indeed. And if we go with the theory that each one has all those other little traits inside, than we need a broader range, as wisdom should be under intelligence (as it's closest to intelligence)
Growth is more than just physical growth. Tha ideya would be more about emotional growth IMO.

[wyldflowa]

Again, the game manuals vary greatly, but they both state that Wizeman is attempting to gain strength by capturing Ideya. The manuals further state that this operation had been going on for some time -- well before Claris and Elliot's arrival. Therefore, the Ideya cannot be mere figments of Claris and Elliot's imaginations.

But that's just it - I'm not going against canon. I have played the game since it came out~ I've read the manuals~ although I love it and enjoy the theories I refuse to see it as anything too deeply or as anything that can be marked as absolute fact. But I do know what's what.

I see the game as just Elliot and Claris' dreams and Ideya as being exclisive to their dreams. If everyone has Ideya why don't we see them? Why don't we all dream of NiGHTS and Reala and Wizeman? Why didn't we ever know of them before the game came out if they are things universal to everyone's dreams? It's because these are Elliot and Claris' dreams - not ours. Have you ever had a dream so epic and real you could swear you were really saving the world and the fate of humanity was on the line? That's what I feel is happening to them here. If you run out of time on NiGHTS what happens? The world doesn't end, you don't lose a life - Elliot and Claris wake up. It is only after completing the game that they are able to achieve their dreams because their courage Ideya has grown through the events of their dreams.

I got my wires crossed about the having five Ideya at the beginning thing (which I still stand by, or at least the idea that everyone has the ability to possess all five Ideya or even begin life with all five Ideya and their actions in their dreams mean certain Ideya grow and others fade out of existence) - but Ideya growing and developing as a result of what goes on in the dream is totally canon -

Two people were fighting off all the Nightmaren who had tried to attack, to save Nightopia and even though they fought with fear, they fought with courage. It was then, that the Red Ideya of Courage appeared over their heads!!

Just a few moments ago they felt like total failures. But now that the world needs their help, Elliot and Claris feel, for the first time in their lives, a courage growing within them.

Growth/Wisdom are interchangable terms - they both denote to gaining knowledge while Intelligence is more about what you do with that knowledge and your ability to deal with problems in life. Think how an IQ test doesn't actually require to you know any facts - it tests things like problem solving, judgement, logic, reasoning and the like rather than if you know how many wives Henry the VII had or what caused WW2... You could be the most knowledgeable person in the world but if you don't actually apply what you know to anything it's pretty useless.

I agree with what people are saying about the Ideya traits being broad concepts that encompass a number of other traits underneath them. Generally if you think of any personality trait it will fall under one of the Ideya on an either positive or negative scale (like, optimism is a positive part of "hope" while sceptisism is a negative part) so like the more positive points of your personality you have for each trait the stronger that Ideya will be. Maybe that's why courage is so rare? Because people are more suseptable to the negative traits of it or because there are more negatives than positives?

[Curiosity Inc.]

You do have a point Curiosity. Wisdom and intelligence are quite similar indeed. And if we go with the theory that each one has all those other little traits inside, than we need a broader range, as wisdom should be under intelligence (as it's closest to intelligence)
Growth is more than just physical growth. Tha ideya would be more about emotional growth IMO.

You're right that growth is more than just physical growth. That's why I mentioned the drive and desire to be smarter and stronger and so forth.

However, I disagree with your assessment of wisdom and intelligence. Intelligence should be put under the wisdom category, not the other way around. Intelligence as I see it is simply knowledge. Knowledge of facts, knowledge of emotions, knowledge of your gut feelings. Wisdom -- as I see it -- is the knowledge you have and how you apply it.

Growth/Wisdom are interchangable terms - they both denote to gaining knowledge while Intelligence is more about what you do with that knowledge and your ability to deal with problems in life. Think how an IQ test doesn't actually require to you know any facts - it tests things like problem solving, judgement, logic, reasoning and the like rather than if you know how many wives Henry the VII had or what caused WW2... You could be the most knowledgeable person in the world but if you don't actually apply what you know to anything it's pretty useless.

I strongly disagree. Growth and wisdom are definitely not the same thing. Growth is the drive to gain knowledge and wisdom is the method of applying knowledge. Growth can also be physical, mental and/or emotional, while wisdom is strictly mental and/or emotional.

In fact, your description of intelligence is precisely how I picture wisdom. Intelligence is simply knowing things. Problem solving, judgement, logic, reasoning -- the application of Intelligence -- to me, that's wisdom. You are correct in saying that intelligence without wisdom is "pretty useless", but wisdom without intelligence cannot exist. The two are co-dependent, which is why I believe they need to share an Ideya.

[PRiNCE]

So, according to your theory, the following should be the ideya traits and colors. Right?
Blue=wisdom includes intelligence
Red=courage
White=Purity includes love, compassion, etc.
green=growth
yellow=hope

I like the listy I made!

[wyldflowa]

In fact, your description of intelligence is precisely how I picture wisdom. Intelligence is simply knowing things. Problem solving, judgement, logic, reasoning -- the application of Intelligence -- to me, that's wisdom. You are correct in saying that intelligence without wisdom is "pretty useless", but wisdom without intelligence cannot exist. The two are co-dependent, which is why I believe they need to share an Ideya.

It's not just my description of intelligence - it's the description of intelligence. Intelligence is more often used to describe "capacity for learning, reasoning, understanding, and similar forms of mental activity; aptitude in grasping truths, relationships, facts, meanings, etc." LiNK while wisdom is "knowledge of what is true or right coupled with just judgment as to action" LiNK.

The line is blurry between the words, I agree... but I still think wisdom is more linked to growth then intelligence. Your mind grows when it earns wisdom~ you grow through learning from experience. Growing up is about gaining wisdom - learning how to do this and that, right from wrong and the like. While intelligence is more about hard facts and mental capacity~ What you learn in school, college, uni, etc. I don't feel they are co-dependant at all. Someone can have great intelligence on a certain area of history but could lack wisdom when dealing with people socially. Someone could give extremely wise and practical advice through their experiences but might not have the intelligence to do quadratic equations. Someone could have great intelligence in martial arts but might use it unwisely to bully people or something.

In short, I reckon, intelligence = booksmarts while wisdom = lifeskills. *nodnods*

[Tangocat777]

Ya know, I bet there's a manual for this. Or maybe even a website. (sarcasm)

[Curiosity Inc.]

Ya know, I bet there's a manual for this.

If somebody could find it and clear all this up, I'd be most grateful.

[Sa-chan]

..hmm... I feel the need to point out that the last level, Twin Seeds-- which is common to both Claris and Elliot-- is called "The Growth".
To me it's not so much a personality trait as it is an experience. The ideya are like traits that the dreamers have within themselves, while the levels (The Ideal, The Possibility, etc) are more like outside influences and experiences.

Just a thought.

[Tangocat777]

Okay, check the NiD for newbies page and scroll down to the japanese story, which goes into much detail. It says that ideya are dream energies that people project their conciousness into. First it mentions each ideya shows its quality. Note that It only mentions that they display qualities, instead of being the personification of that quality. I suppose that means that if it got stolen, the person still possesses the quality, though they've lost dream energy and have one less place to project their conciousness. The red ideya is said to dwell within a courageous person. The word "dwell" is taken seriously, because Claris' and Elliot's never show until their other ideya are lost. Now that I think of it, I'll bet most maren can only steal ideyas that float around people, while NiGHTS could have been made to morph with people, thus exposing the red idea for other maren to steal. Some of this, as you'll notice, is not actually from the NiD for newbies page. I put in a few interpretations I made from what I learned.

[Nellie Francis]

(Bleh, so much reading)

I think that the number of Ideya a person has can be gained or lost as they go through their lives in the waking world.

For instance, a person who becomes mature over time will have the Green Ideya. On the other hand, a person who was formerly optimistic, but over time loses it will also lose their hold over the Yellow Ideya.

In the case of Elliot and Claris, some people might have a 'hidden trait' that they don't know they have, e.g. the Red Ideya (Bravery). That person would be nervous of something at first, but they get accustomed to it over time (Or so I think that's how it goes...)