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Hey! What about Wiiware/VC? :(


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#1
Nickno

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Hey. Why you forgetting the Wii? Yeah, sure, we got the sequel, but some of us want the original. So, don't leave us out. Maybe petitioning for it on VC might help make the Saturn be on VC. O.O

#2
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The Wii doesn't have the capabilities to support the full port of NiD on the VC or Wiiware. Having it on a disc is another story, but as for a download, it's a no go. Believe me, I'd love to play NiD on the Wii, but the system just can't handle it. As it stands, the 360 and PS3 can handle having it as a download, even as a PS2 port translated into English.

#3
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The Wii doesn't have the capabilities to support the full port of NiD on the VC or Wiiware. Having it on a disc is another story, but as for a download, it's a no go. Believe me, I'd love to play NiD on the Wii, but the system just can't handle it. As it stands, the 360 and PS3 can handle having it as a download, even as a PS2 port translated into English.

Do you think they could use the PS2 version of NiGHTS into Dreams to port it over to the Wii? If games like Okami and Ninjabread Man(I never want to use that as an example ever again) could be ported then I see no issue with NiGHTS's PS2 installment.

#4
SmashQueen

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Do you think they could use the PS2 version of NiGHTS into Dreams to port it over to the Wii? If games like Okami and Ninjabread Man(I never want to use that as an example ever again) could be ported then I see no issue with NiGHTS's PS2 installment.

In disc form, yes, I believe it's a possibility especially considering that the original Saturn game was ported onto the Playstation 2. But as a download I'm not so sure. Then again, I only know as much about the capabilities of the Wii as I've read from others, saying how the storage on the system wouldn't be enough to hold a Saturn game. People usually have more than one game on their system at one time as well. It might put some gamers off having to either delete their 'channels' or transfer them over to an SD card to accommodate one game.

I think it would be worth it though. Granted, games like World of Goo would have to be carried over to the system again to be played.

#5
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Well, this is why when i began this campaign i stated SEGA should port the game to "this generation of consoles". It would be up to SEGA which of those consoles they can actually be able to port it to.

The reason that Xbox LiVE and PSN have been mentioned more (especially from TRiPPY) is because chances are those are the consoles that this game will only be able to be ported to if we're talking technically. We're not playing favourites, it's just a matter of fact that currently the Wii most probably couldn't handle it.

#6
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See the technicalities of the Wii confuse the bajeezus out of me. Can some tech head explain to me why Mario 64 can be on the Virtual Console but NiGHTS can't? I'm guessing it's because of the CD based music in NiGHTS being too big for the memory whereas the N64 was cart based?

#7
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I always get frustrated when people say the Wii "can't handle it". If I'm correct in thinking, the Gamecube was more powerful than the PS2, and the Wii is more powerful than the Gamecube. If the PS2 could have NiGHTS, how in the world is the Wii not capable? Yeah, it couldn't support it by download service, but the system CAN run NiGHTS on a disc with the right programming.

#8
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People say it wouldn't cope on a physical copy? lol wtf the Wii's not THAT bad. I think what they mean is the Saturn code is hellish to port. This campaign is for downloadable versions of the game not actual discs.

#9
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Yes, people say stuff like that. Not as much as they used to, but I still hear it from time to time.

Even if this is for DL versions, I still think Wii needs a disc version. Or at least have a PC version.

#10
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My first inclination was to point out the Gamecube Sonic Gems disc that had Sonic R on it (which was a Saturn game). However, I'm fairly certain the code they used for that port was from the PC version of Sonic R, though in theory, the Gamecube/Wii could potentially have the power to run the port. At the very least, the PS2 code would probably be a lot easier to port than the Saturn code, but for the Wii I'm not sure if it's a viable solution. They'd probably consider doing a pack-in feature like "WITH NEW MOTION CONTROLS" but if anyone's tried to play JoD with the WiiMote (I just got a Wii myself so now I can finally play the game that's been sitting around for months) they know it's not nearly as glamorous as our imaginations would have us believe. Throw in the poor sales of JoD and the Wii is probably the least-likely system that they'd want to release a port on besides the handhelds. In short: it's not impossible, just improbable.

That being said, I'd see no issue with asking for an attempt to port it to the 3DS. Start off the new Nintendo Handheld's lifecycle by joining in Nintendo's party of ports, and releasing a classic game revamped for 3D.

#11
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My first inclination was to point out the Gamecube Sonic Gems disc that had Sonic R on it (which was a Saturn game). However, I'm fairly certain the code they used for that port was from the PC version of Sonic R, though in theory, the Gamecube/Wii could potentially have the power to run the port. At the very least, the PS2 code would probably be a lot easier to port than the Saturn code, but for the Wii I'm not sure if it's a viable solution. They'd probably consider doing a pack-in feature like "WITH NEW MOTION CONTROLS" but if anyone's tried to play JoD with the WiiMote (I just got a Wii myself so now I can finally play the game that's been sitting around for months) they know it's not nearly as glamorous as our imaginations would have us believe. Throw in the poor sales of JoD and the Wii is probably the least-likely system that they'd want to release a port on besides the handhelds. In short: it's not impossible, just improbable.

That being said, I'd see no issue with asking for an attempt to port it to the 3DS. Start off the new Nintendo Handheld's lifecycle by joining in Nintendo's party of ports, and releasing a classic game revamped for 3D.

The port was of the PC version. Regardless, NiGHTS came out at about the same time as the N64, so if Saturn games could be ported, and the Wii can handle N64 games, couldn't the Wii handle NiGHTS? I doubt Sega would attempt it, though, because everyone seems to hate the Wii.

I'd suggest mentioning the Wii in the literature about the campaign to satisfy the Wii fans, and just see what happens.

#12
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The port was of the PC version. Regardless, NiGHTS came out at about the same time as the N64, so if Saturn games could be ported, and the Wii can handle N64 games, couldn't the Wii handle NiGHTS? I doubt Sega would attempt it, though, because everyone seems to hate the Wii.

I'd suggest mentioning the Wii in the literature about the campaign to satisfy the Wii fans, and just see what happens.


Yeah, I thought it was PC version. The issue with porting Saturn stuff is specifically that the Saturn had one of the most bizarre hardware configurations of it's time. In contrast: think of the Saturn as the PS3 of yesterday: two cpu's, two VDPs, and a slew of other chips made it a lot more difficult to program for (many programmers were, and still are, in the mindset of coding non-parallel processed applications, though they're getting better at it now). Quoting from wikipedia: "The Saturn was a powerful machine for the time, but its design, with two CPUs and six other processors, made harnessing this power extremely difficult. Also, many of the ancillary chips in the system were "off the shelf" components, increasing the complexity of the system because the components were not specifically designed to work together. " Even more so, taking the time and learning the components well enough to program efficiently for didn't have as clear a benefit as learning PS3 parallel coding does. When games were programmed well for it, you can still see the results even if it's not as stark a contrast. A game like NiGHTS, which was developed in-house by Sega, had access to all the experts on the hardware and the resources to fully utilize the system. Based on that, porting the code is even harder to do because (and I'm just shooting blindly here, based on logic) you'd either have to fully emulate all of those internal chips (as something like SSF strives to implement, and it's still not 100% accurate) or recode nearly the entire thing for the different hardware (assuming what they did for the "Brand New Dream" version, and if I remember correctly, the core of the Sega Saturn Dream version on the PS2: while the visuals looked Saturn, the core mechanics were the same as the Brand New Dream, which did have some differences).

I know this has gotten way off topic but, as you can see, the more powerful the hardware, the more likely it would be that the classic or PS2 code can be ported to it. Not saying nobody cares about the Wii, it's just less feasible. It'd be cool to see it happen, though!

#13
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All good points in here. But as far as programing is concerned, I'm a bit confused. They did already port NiD to the PS2, which means they could convert the PS2 code to Wii if they wanted, right?

Also, I've read in multiple places now that the Wii's SD cards won't be able to hold the game due to it's size -- likely because of the music and A-Life system. I have a small question about that...

Couldn't they remove the 'data storage' block on the Wii's USB ports? The Wii system has two of them on the back of the console, after all... The only reason that the 'data storage' part was turned off on it was because they didn't want to promote piracy.

USB drives come large enough that they might be able to hold NiD plus the music... And if not, there's always those external hard drives (Like the MyBook) that plug in through two USB ports (one for power and one for data transfer). If my research is correct, external drives are hooked up to the XBox 360 and Playstation 3 all of the time. The only trick is formatting them so the console can read it... A software/operating system update to the Wii might do the trick?

Anyway, just rambling. Take from it what you will.

#14
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All good points in here. But as far as programing is concerned, I'm a bit confused. They did already port NiD to the PS2, which means they could convert the PS2 code to Wii if they wanted, right?


http://kotaku.com/31...-exact-ps2-port

There are instances of perfect conversion from PS2 to Wii, and it does look like at least one other cult hit has gotten the treatment. It's just much easier, and at least makes more sense, to port it to 360/PS3 because the hardware is more powerful (less of a need to optimize the code and still have it run smooth), has easy game updates (I'm not too familiar with how Wii updates work, but with the digital distribution model, basically the entire game can be patched with a download on the 360/PS3), and so on. They CAN port it, and if they do I'd recommend contacting a company like Ready at Dawn or maybe even offer the challenge to SUMO. Just the likelihood is probably much less to port it to Wii, even with Move and Kinekt coming out that does relatively what the Wii does on the systems with a better online marketplace model. Again, I wouldn't object to it at all to them putting it on the Wii. I'd love it if they had it on all the systems!

Also, I've read in multiple places now that the Wii's SD cards won't be able to hold the game due to it's size -- likely because of the music and A-Life system. I have a small question about that...

Couldn't they remove the 'data storage' block on the Wii's USB ports? The Wii system has two of them on the back of the console, after all... The only reason that the 'data storage' part was turned off on it was because they didn't want to promote piracy.

USB drives come large enough that they might be able to hold NiD plus the music... And if not, there's always those external hard drives (Like the MyBook) that plug in through two USB ports (one for power and one for data transfer). If my research is correct, external drives are hooked up to the XBox 360 and Playstation 3 all of the time. The only trick is formatting them so the console can read it... A software/operating system update to the Wii might do the trick?

Anyway, just rambling. Take from it what you will.


I'm a little confused by this: are you talking about hosting the entire game on an SD card, or just the save data? If you're referring to putting the whole game on an SD card, and I believe the PS2 port was between 3 and 4 GB in size, there's no way to do it. If it were just the original game, which did fit on a 650MB CD-Rom disc, then yes, it's possible. The Wii apparently doesn't support SDHC, so the maximum size for an SD card in a Wii is 2 GB. If the game were ported to Wii, let's assume they'd use the PS2 code. Even removing the music and A-Life information probably wouldn't be enough to fit it. Strictly speaking, the size of the PS2 port comes from the higher quality video files (iirc), and the fact that it's original NiGHTS, the remake, AND Christmas NiGHTS all packed into one disc plus bonus features. While it's technically possible for Nintendo to update the system to enable I/O data exchange via USB port, they'd never do it cause it would basically open up the system to every type of hack people will try to throw at it. Furthermore, for one game, I don't think people would buy external drives nor would Nintendo do the update. Unfortunately, I can't conceive of the port happening any other way than a regular Wii DVD disc.

And don't worry about the rambling, it's good for stirring the brain-juices. I just hope I'm not coming off as coming down on anything, just trying to explain my point of view on the situation. We all want NiGHTS ported to *insert system you have* here. Ask five types of apples and you only end up getting two, maybe three, and you're still better than with no apples at all. ^_^

#15
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The thing with the Wii VC and WiiWare, is that no game can exceed 512Mb in size, and that's the maximum. The Wii only has that much on board memory, and while you can store your games onto a larger SD card, when playing any of the games, the Wii copies the files over to it's built in memory then plays the game. The system does not allow the user to play directly from an SD card. Therefore, you can't have any DL game bigger than 512Mb.

It's a sad state of affairs, and while I don't know the exact size of the original NiD, the PS2 version definitely would not fit in such a small space. I'd hazard a guess that with all the Video and Music in the original, it'd be pushing it as well.

As for removing the data storage block, while it's a nice idea, not only would it completely leave the Wii open to piracy and hacking, but that's quite a major system update we're talking about, and one which Nintendo would never do for one DLC game. Also on the subject of a disc-based release, never mind the poor sales of JoD, SEGA would have to divvy up a whole load of cash for publishing, producing and printing discs and distributing them around the world. That's the ease of DLC, it's actually incredibly cheap in comparison.

Don't mean to rain on anyones parade, but the Wii just isn't a very viable platform for this kind of release, all thanks to Nintendo's strict rules limitations.

#16
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It's just much easier, and at least makes more sense, to port it to 360/PS3 because the hardware is more powerful (less of a need to optimize the code and still have it run smooth), has easy game updates (I'm not too familiar with how Wii updates work, but with the digital distribution model, basically the entire game can be patched with a download on the 360/PS3), and so on.

True. (And the Wii updates itself via WiFi or hard-wire connection to the internet.)

I'm a little confused by this: are you talking about hosting the entire game on an SD card, or just the save data?

I was referring to hosting just the game, yes. I don't know what the save data's size could be. Jof's done a better job of explaining it than I ever could.

While it's technically possible for Nintendo to update the system to enable I/O data exchange via USB port, they'd never do it cause it would basically open up the system to every type of hack people will try to throw at it. Furthermore, for one game, I don't think people would buy external drives nor would Nintendo do the update. Unfortunately, I can't conceive of the port happening any other way than a regular Wii DVD disc.

As for removing the data storage block, while it's a nice idea, not only would it completely leave the Wii open to piracy and hacking, but that's quite a major system update we're talking about, and one which Nintendo would never do for one DLC game.

Oh, I agree with you both completely. Just a theory, that's all. In fact, there are dozens of tutorials on how to hack those USB ports to connect to an external HD anyway... I was speculating on a more 'official' option. And yes, an update of that magnitude is unlikely to begin with -- but if they ever did decide to make a bigger holding system, it wouldn't be out of the question... I know at least three people who have run out of space from downloading VC games. And since they payed for those games, they're not about to delete them. It sounds like a marketing campaign waiting to happen. I admit that unblocking the USB ports would be a bit ridiculous, but it wouldn't be out of the question for Nintendo to officially license a Wii external HD. Eventually. ^_^

And don't worry about the rambling, it's good for stirring the brain-juices. I just hope I'm not coming off as coming down on anything, just trying to explain my point of view on the situation. We all want NiGHTS ported to *insert system you have* here. Ask five types of apples and you only end up getting two, maybe three, and you're still better than with no apples at all. :)

Don't mean to rain on anyones parade, but the Wii just isn't a very viable platform for this kind of release, all thanks to Nintendo's strict rules limitations.

Oh, not at all -- you're both being quite polite about it! I don't think they'd ever release it for the Wii either. I think the point at this stage is just to throw around ideas, really. It is unlikely, but still an interesting challenge to speculate about.

#17
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I just checked and, compressed, the Saturn disc size is about 430MB. Uncompressed (meaning the disc proper, as played in the Saturn), it's 527MB. JUST out of reach for a max VC size. Even if you took away the videos, I doubt it would run well in that tight of a frame. It leaves almost no room for the emulation code and/or enhancements.

#18
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Horray for companies over complicating their systems! (Ninty and Sega, you're both at fault. D:)

This may seems to be coming out of nowhere, but what's the probability of Nintendo making another home console in the near future? So far, the Wii has had *about* the lifespan of the Game Cube, and it's been under fire a lot for it's limitations.

#19
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This may seems to be coming out of nowhere, but what's the probability of Nintendo making another home console in the near future? So far, the Wii has had *about* the lifespan of the Game Cube, and it's been under fire a lot for it's limitations.

http://wii.nintendol...d_for_a_new_wii

#20
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Horray for companies over complicating their systems! (Ninty and Sega, you're both at fault. D:)

This may seems to be coming out of nowhere, but what's the probability of Nintendo making another home console in the near future? So far, the Wii has had *about* the lifespan of the Game Cube, and it's been under fire a lot for it's limitations.


Yeah, what Smashy said. This is all speculation to me, but it seems like Nintendo is trying to merge a lot of their spread-out console features into one system with the 3DS. Basically, if the 3DS is as powerful as they've been advertising (visuals on-par with the Wii is a stretch, but it's close, especially at the lower resolution and in 3D) and they can retool their online network to sport better multiplayer interaction, Nintendo probably wouldn't even need to invest in a new home console. See, this is where Ninty's brilliance is at the moment: why spend all your R&D resources on trying to satisfy the ridiculous visual demands of home console gamers by investing in HD tech and next gen graphics? It's a race that Ninty hasn't really been trying to compete in for a while, much less focused on winning. Ah, but miniaturize already good graphics for a handheld console (read: something that, by and large, has no real benefit for being HD due to the size of the device and the perception of the human eyeball at close ranges), keep the touch screen stuff, add 3D innovation, and you can see how this is easily a direction Nintendo's natural to pursue. It also cuts out a factor of the overall gaming experience: the right TV. Since all the hardware is set out and all you really need is a good set of headphones as accessories, I can definitely see why they weren't focusing on a Wii2 and rather on this.

I really should be a Nintendo Representative with all that praise I'm giving them, but it's the honest truth. Not saying waggle will stop, as I'm sure they'll incorporate it eventually into their next system or maybe even into the 3DS, but yeah. Just my 2 cents.

#21
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Twin Seeds has found her way back into the internet and she is very disappointed in you guys. Getting the downloadable games for PSN and XBLA was a great step, but why are you stopping there when there's so much support and steam going on? The wii may not be able to handle Nights as a downloadable, but a physical copy would not only be amazing, but also well within the possibility if we keep the support going. Don't give up yet guys! Sega and Nintendo have a lot of history together, and their almost partnership was cemented with the Mario and Sonic olympics. It wouldn't take an act of god to make them re-release nights on the wii as an actual game, just some really determined fans. Lets get all the wii owners the chance to experience this amazing game. There could be a whole new generation of fans to join here, but it starts with us pushing for more and not just settling for 2 out of 3 or second best. I'm linking the campaign in every signature i have(as soon as i kill this fly). We are not finished yet, fans. Enough naysaying. Because even if the Wii runs its course soon, enough support and a NiD remake/rerelease might just be a launch title for the new Wii2 or whatever they're calling it.

Onward, says Twin Seeds, onward to complete and absolute victory!

#22
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http://wii.nintendol...d_for_a_new_wii

That's ironic.

Yeah, what Smashy said. This is all speculation to me, but it seems like Nintendo is trying to merge a lot of their spread-out console features into one system with the 3DS. Basically, if the 3DS is as powerful as they've been advertising (visuals on-par with the Wii is a stretch, but it's close, especially at the lower resolution and in 3D) and they can retool their online network to sport better multiplayer interaction, Nintendo probably wouldn't even need to invest in a new home console. See, this is where Ninty's brilliance is at the moment: why spend all your R&D resources on trying to satisfy the ridiculous visual demands of home console gamers by investing in HD tech and next gen graphics? It's a race that Ninty hasn't really been trying to compete in for a while, much less focused on winning. Ah, but miniaturize already good graphics for a handheld console (read: something that, by and large, has no real benefit for being HD due to the size of the device and the perception of the human eyeball at close ranges), keep the touch screen stuff, add 3D innovation, and you can see how this is easily a direction Nintendo's natural to pursue. It also cuts out a factor of the overall gaming experience: the right TV. Since all the hardware is set out and all you really need is a good set of headphones as accessories, I can definitely see why they weren't focusing on a Wii2 and rather on this.

I really should be a Nintendo Representative with all that praise I'm giving them, but it's the honest truth. Not saying waggle will stop, as I'm sure they'll incorporate it eventually into their next system or maybe even into the 3DS, but yeah. Just my 2 cents.

Excellent points. I prefer consoles to the itty bitty screens of handhelds, so I guess I'm just not as enthralled with the 3DS as I should be. I am, but not enough.

Twin Seeds has found her way back into the internet and she is very disappointed in you guys. Getting the downloadable games for PSN and XBLA was a great step, but why are you stopping there when there's so much support and steam going on? The wii may not be able to handle Nights as a downloadable, but a physical copy would not only be amazing, but also well within the possibility if we keep the support going. Don't give up yet guys! Sega and Nintendo have a lot of history together, and their almost partnership was cemented with the Mario and Sonic olympics. It wouldn't take an act of god to make them re-release nights on the wii as an actual game, just some really determined fans. Lets get all the wii owners the chance to experience this amazing game. There could be a whole new generation of fans to join here, but it starts with us pushing for more and not just settling for 2 out of 3 or second best. I'm linking the campaign in every signature i have(as soon as i kill this fly). We are not finished yet, fans. Enough naysaying. Because even if the Wii runs its course soon, enough support and a NiD remake/rerelease might just be a launch title for the new Wii2 or whatever they're calling it.

Onward, says Twin Seeds, onward to complete and absolute victory!

As DiGi's said, Ninty hasn't been ignored, it's just a sort of internet shorthand. The actual letter to Sega just says something to the effect of "current generation consoles." Don't give up hope yet! ^_^

#23
JaxTH

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The port was of the PC version. Regardless, NiGHTS came out at about the same time as the N64, so if Saturn games could be ported, and the Wii can handle N64 games, couldn't the Wii handle NiGHTS? I doubt Sega would attempt it, though, because everyone seems to hate the Wii.

I'd suggest mentioning the Wii in the literature about the campaign to satisfy the Wii fans, and just see what happens.

The VC wouldn't even be able to handle SEGA CD games. Saturn games are even bigger than those.

EDIT: About Nyx's first post. You can't play VC/WiiWare games directly from the SD card. The Wii simply copies the game to the Wii's harddrive and then removes it once you are done. And since the Wii only has 512MB of storage it wouldn't work.

EDIT II: I need to read more, Jof already said it all.

#24
7Force

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The VC wouldn't even be able to handle SEGA CD games.

I think it may be possibal as there are some TurboGrafx CD games on the service and I'm pretty sure that the 2D shoot em up Ironclad was only came out on the Neo Geo CD so maybe I think Mega CD games are possibal.

Back on topic I think maybe they should skip VC and put it on WiiWare but cut the game into two episodes. Make episode one Claris stroy and episode 2 Elliot's stroy as two separte downloads. I think doing it that way will help save up some space.

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Huruyami

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I'm probably going to just be rehashing what's been said here, but the Wii does not have the internal memory requirements to handle such a large file, and SD cards over 20gb start to get into the possibility of being incompatible with the wii. I do alot of wii homebrew and I have successfully emulated NiD on my wii from an SD card, and I had a very, very low fps rate. It didn't work at all from usb. (Yes I know there are usb restrictions, but with homebrew you bypass those and even still it didn't work.) Even though Mario 64 and NiGHTS are both games from the same generation, Mario 64 is much smaller being on a cartridge, and as Level 99 stated earlier, the processors and other hardware in the Saturn put it ahead of its time and made its game files very difficult to program and much larger than their N64 counterparts.

Even though the emulator used was a beta and still had kinks to work out, even if it were a perfect emulator it wouldn't be able to play NiD at its full capacity because of its complexity and file size. Disc release? Absolutely possible. Probable? No.

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Back on topic I think maybe they should skip VC and put it on WiiWare but cut the game into two episodes. Make episode one Claris stroy and episode 2 Elliot's stroy as two separte downloads. I think doing it that way will help save up some space.

That's an idea. Tell us, technofolks, is it possible?

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That's an idea. Tell us, technofolks, is it possible?


Probably not. Most people would probably want to play both stories whenever they wanted, so I don't see how taking it and splitting it in two would save any memory if you downloaded both. It's like downloading half a CD today and the other half tomorrow, eventually you'd have the entire CD and it still be the gargantuan size that it is.

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Noctourne Wonderland

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What about the recen tly discovered PC version? Could that be ported?

#29
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Well a lot of people are saying it's an emulation not an actual port so it's highly unlikely. Also splitting the game wouldn't work because the game is supposed to be one thing (ie) Twin Seeds.




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