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Why more people need to play the original!


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67 replies to this topic

#1
Aura-Moon

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Ok, we'll flash back to a couple of months ago, boyfriend and me get JoD, I own NiGHTS and Crimbo NiGHTS, he doesn't. He's never played NiD except for the Wii version. We play it for a couple of weeks and we both give a review.

He enjoyed it.
I disliked it.

Anyway, this leads to a discussion about the old school NiGHTS on Saturn and I mention how I have more fun playing that over JoD and boyfriend askes why. I state that there is little to restrict you in creating a Nightmaren for example and there is little of this new fangled silliness. Call me old school lol! I also explain that you miss out on awesome bosses and music and atmosphere in NiD the original which is -to me- lost in JoD.

He now really REALLY wants to play NiD on the saturn and it made me smile. However, some of my other friends feel the old one is rubbish and lacks substance.

So follow me on this one, my fellow NiDers. Do you feel that anyone who has played JoD should play the original to get a feel of what it was like in the 90's? I mean, admittedly I love the original because the limitless fun you can have weaving in your own story and exploring ideas, where as the new one is too restricted.

Soooorry if this may be in the wrong topic ^^; It's been too long since I forumed.

#2
Nemoide

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Well, I would agree but I sometimes act like a "Gaming Historian" and will play through games just because they influenced later games? I recognize most folks are fine just playing modern sequels without considering what they are based on. But I still would want to force NiD upon peoples.

Also I haven't played JoD so maybe I shouldn't be talking at all.

#3
Saifer Dracondrali

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However, some of my other friends feel the old one is rubbish and lacks substance.

I haveta say... that's the first time I heard that one... most ppl, if not all of them, would insist that NiD is better.
Now I never actually played NiD mind you but I saw trailers and gameplay vids. and I like to consider myself quite the experienced gamer and what I saw in the trailers of NiD was far higher quality of gaming than that of JoD (which i have actually played)
don't get me wrong I like JoD I unlocked everything but then I stopped. NiD just seems so much better.

#4
iLLViLLAiN

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Well, I would agree but I sometimes act like a "Gaming Historian" and will play through games just because they influenced later games? I recognize most folks are fine just playing modern sequels without considering what they are based on. But I still would want to force NiD upon peoples.

lol I'm the same way. Whenever there's a sequel to something that I may be interested in I check out the prequel.

Anyway, I'm not sure what your friend is like but if he likes games that have a faster flow then he may like NiD better. Also, like Saifer, I find it quite odd that your friends say the new game lacks substance. For a game that appears so simple I'd say it had more depth than Jod since you could actually create you're own theories and even pronunciations which JoD limits in almost every way possible. It was fun all of these years saying Reala and Ideya several different ways. There was just a more mysterious feel to NiD. A lot more mysterious.

#5
Penelopi

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I think people should play the original not to show how much better it was than JoD, but just for another NiGHTS experience and an entertaining game. Now, I love JoD. It's my favorite Wii game, I've played through its stages a billion times and still want more, and I even like some particular tidbits of the cutscenes. But I will admit that it is flawed in ways that it shouldn't have been and the original wasn't. It all boils down to the effort put into it. NiD was treated with far better care than JoD, so it has smooth animation throughout, relatively few glitches, and more focus on getting a good score. It helps players get a high score with its bonus time, trick rings, under 20 sec bonus, etc. JoD doesn't let you have bonus time, and it hurries you through the stage because the time bonus decreases the more time you take.

NiD is for people who like arcade games. If they don't, then they might like JoD better because of the story elements. But I think everyone should give it a try, just for the fun of it. Might not get a good score (I kept on getting Ds and lower at first, and after I'd beaten JoD), but even flying through and getting an F in the end is an enjoyable experience as long as you can laugh it off. The feel of the controls makes me giddy. A little loop here, a little twirl there, fly through, knock out a 3rd-level or two, zoom! Yes, very fun.

#6
andersam

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I've played JOD, which was my first NiGHTS game, And I still really want to see how the original was. like you guys said, sometimes playing the original gives you a renewed look at the newer version.

#7
Kentilan

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Sorry if this is off-topic but...
Since I enjoyed JoD more than NiD, despite having played NiD first, I'd like to understand what makes NiD so great for so many people.

Many people say there is so much left to interpretation in NiD while in JoD everything is explained, because of the dialogues and such. But most of the dialogues in JoD are either things you would learn in NiD by reading the manual (or the japanese website), or completely useless cutscenes (you know, like "what's Octopaw doing here") which explain nothing at all. There's still a lot of room for theories in JoD.
The only things I can see which are really more explained are the characters's personnalities, and to some extend, what the levels represent for the kids. And in both cases, there's still room for theories and personal interpretations.
And even then, why is it such a big deal? Why is mystery so important? I actually enjoyed learning more about the characters and such.

I'd like to understand, because sometimes I feel like I'm blind or stupid or something.
Now, I don't necessarily think JoD is better than NiD, I just like it more (but I also like NiD).

#8
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I'd like to play the original simply to get an idea for what it was when it first came out, but I see from the youtube videos I've found that it looks like tons of fun. It would probably annoy me to no end that I'd stink at it at first, but it really does look worth the hassle of getting the hang of it. Granted, I could possibly say the same for JoD, but I didn't have a lot of time to give that a chance (my boyfriend rented it for me and let me play it on his Wii, the sweetheart... then I asked him to play it for a bit so he could tell me whether I honestly stink or if the controls (Mote+Chuck, fyi; didn't even try SoloMote) are off, and he said the controls are horrible, although he sees potential in the game).

Apologies for the overly long, rambling sentence that probably makes no sense whatsoever. XDD

#9
JAZZ-man

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i would have played the original but i cant because 1) i dont have a PS2 and 2) i dont know how to place an order to get the PS2 version from Japan.

and to answer your question: because more people can have more experience of who NiGHTS is

#10
charlie

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Do you feel that anyone who has played JoD should play the original to get a feel of what it was like in the 90's? I mean, admittedly I love the original because the limitless fun you can have weaving in your own story and exploring ideas, where as the new one is too restricted.

Everyone that has the chance to play the original NiD should play it. The fact that people are still talking about it and there is such a dedicated fanbase more than 10 years later is pretty impressive!

A number of people, myself included, share the opinion that JoD is not a sequel of NiD but rather a re-imagination of the original, so there are a lot of differences between the 2 games. As you say the story is a lot less restricted in NiD and it's more open to your own interpretation so for a lot of people it's easier to connect to the story and make it your own. JoD on the other hand isn't as inviting and tells you what the story is supposed to be and doesn't leave much for imagination.

Since I enjoyed JoD more than NiD, despite having played NiD first, I'd like to understand what makes NiD so great for so many people.

When I play NiD and JoD I play them more for the gameplay than I do for the story, and when I first started playing NiD I never expected to get so addicted to it! I'll admit it took me a while to figure out what I was doing but more and more I realized the depth of the gameplay and how many different strategies and tactics there are to achieve a high score. I'm probably one of the few hardcore fans who only plays for the highest scores, but the game is so fast paced and the creators did such a great job of designing the course layouts.

NiD caters to the fans that like the story and the freedom of flight, as well as the diehard scoreattack fans like myself who will play for hours trying to perfect their scores. JoD doesn't do such a good job for the diehard scoreattack fans because they limit the possibilities and gameplay that was in the original.

All that being said, I still play both NiD and JoD and like them both, but I play them for different experiences. I play NiD for that adrenaline pumping rush of flying through a level and trying to get a perfect score. I play JoD when I want to be captivated by the music and the graphics and really pulled into the experience and freedom of flight.

#11
Purgatory

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Unfortunately it seems to be more in people's nature to enjoy whichever part of a series of games they play first. Whoever's version of a meal they try for the first time. Whatever part in a series of movies they've seen. (examples being I love the second Bill and Ted more than the first one, Army of Darkness is my favourite Evil Dead, I like the second Katamari more than the first one, and my mum's lasagna is always the best lasagna. XD All those came first for me.)

I would like to say NiD really is much better, but then I have to remind myself that I tend to enjoy whichever came first for me. Some people aren't really like that I guess, and it could be that I just so happen to know a lot of people who are.

People who are new to something will always lean towards whatever was part of their beginning. It couldn't hurt to have the experience, though!

#12
Musashi_HUmar

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I agree with Purgatory. I did play the original first, but that made me love JoD even more than someone who played JoD for the first time before they played NiD!

#13
MiTCH

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I actually enjoyed NiD much more, and I unlocked -almost- everything in JoD before I touched NiD. In fact, I just got NiD yesterday. :D I've already cleared Wiseman in both dreams, and can't wait to compete against myself for high scores. For this reason, I'm hurrying this post. NiD is a great experience for JoD players. Bye now. Off for all As! :D :D :D

#14
Noctourne Wonderland

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I've ranted enough on the topic of NiD vs. JoD, so I'll save you all the pain and get to the point. :D

To test the theory of "'Journey' appeals more to modern gamers whilst 'Into Dreams' is a relic of the past" I made my neighbors play at least NiD. One (Ten years old) did not play JoD, although she got Night Over pretty quickly in NiD. The other (Six years old) played both, and did fairly well ("E" ranking first time, refused to utilize bonus time), and liked the original more, although he was convinced that they were the same game (the fact that I refer to both as NiGHTS probably doesn't help, lol). He claimed the original's gameplay was easier to understand.

In terms of the games's storylines, I feel that neither are completely indepentent of the other. To fully understad JoD, you need to fully understand NiD, and to fully understand NiD, you have to fully understand JoD. Does that make sense?

Moving on to the topic of music- yes, "Into Dreams" had a fabulous score. Spring Valley was upbeat, Puffy had opera, Reala was cool, and it all sounded fully orchestrated. It worked with the overall feeling of the game. I personally believe that "Journey" had superior music, although it fit with the tone of the game, and therfore can not be compared fairly to the original, in my opinion. Again, Bomamba was demented, Crystal Castle was soothing, and Wizeman was just plain freaky. It was music befitting the themes of the game. This is not to say that music makes the game, but each is ist' own entity (in terms of being a game, NOT in terms of story/gameplay as discussed above.), and has music that fits each.

So, in summary, yes, people *do* need to play the original. But for the full experience, the sequel is a nessesity.

(This is my way of getting to the point? wow.) :D

#15
phosphorus

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In my opinion, NiD's supiriority extends beyond gameplay, I find NiD story to be much better as well:

NiGHTS into Dreams... : NiGHTS, the care free creature of dreams, helps Elliot and Claris conquer their fears while they do the same for him. (This was my interpretation, your millage may vary)

Journey of Dreams: NiGHTS, the smart alec creature of purple plastic, helps Will magically make his father come home from work, and helps Helen... do... something. They stop Wizeman from putting worms in his head (or something to that effect).

I must make a video (or something) to summarizing my opinion...

#16
JaxTH

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I personally like JoD better, though I am the resident videogame music junkie here...

For gameplay, I still go back and play NiD and CNiD (like right now). But after I beat JoD, I just listened to the music in the sound test. That was about it.

In terms of story, NiD was just "Claris and Elliot conquer their fears with the help of NiGHTS" and CNiD was just "That one Christmas" to me. I enjoyed JoDs story to an extent...I mean, it was nice and all, but I don't really care about it.

On gameplay...NiD and CNiD win.

#17
NNR07

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Both had their up's, both had their down's.

Personally, JoD was fun but it only was to a degree. -shrugs- my ex- loved NiD so much and nit-picked JoD so much that I grew to disliking that game for the sole reason we always argued about it. NiD is better gameplay-wise and "Interpretating it yourself"-wise, and JoD is better Setting-wise (more details added; good or bad to some) and graphics-wise. They're both fun games.

But I enjoy NiD more.

#18
Mysticgamer

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I have to go with JOD story and gameplay to NID but not too big of a margin though. I assume most people have the Saturn analog controller which make NID superb in game play but alas I have the non analog controller and it controls about as well as JOD with a nunchuck.

#19
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I finally got ahold of a coveted Saturn and NiGHTS/Christmas NiGHTS some months ago and only recently sat down and really tried to play it through. THIS GAME IS HARD. Im not even kidding. I dont remember it ever being this hard, but I did have al imited experience with it. But man, some of the bosses and the timing you have to execute just gets tougher and tougher in true Sega fashion. but I LOVE it. I love NiGHTS so much. I love that I can now play it whenever I want in all 3 iterations. It really is a dream come true for me. a dream far too long in coming. but it was worth the wait.
all I have to say is, go to Ebay, track down a saturn and the copy of this game with 3d controller and buy them ASAP. It is practically impossible to be disappointed in this game. It really is.

and more in tune with the topic, I actually love NJOD as much as I do the original. Now thaT I can directly compare them, aside from more modern game design, they play almost identically in the ways that matter. But I wouldnt have minded if they had left out the platforming, because frankly, it wasnt very good. but then the "platforming in NID when you run out of time really isnt very fun either. NiGHTS excels on its flying and the other stuff doesnt really matter. But whether it is Aqua Garden or Soft museum, Crystal Castle or Twin Seeds, all the flying levels are fantastic. The music in both versions excels.

#20
Lady Spritzy

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Hmm... this may belong elsewhere, but I'd love to play the original. however, i don't have the money or means to play NiD. so, anyone know where i could find a good saturn emulator, along with a good NiGHTS rom? that's about all I'd be able to do...

#21
Maresuke

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I have to go with JOD story and gameplay to NID but not too big of a margin though. I assume most people have the Saturn analog controller which make NID superb in game play but alas I have the non analog controller and it controls about as well as JOD with a nunchuck.

D-PAD ALL THE WAY, BABY!!!!! I HATE those darn Joy-stick-a-ma-thingers! You can go ahead and use it... if you're into that sort of thing...

Hmm... this may belong elsewhere, but I'd love to play the original. however, i don't have the money or means to play NiD. so, anyone know where i could find a good saturn emulator, along with a good NiGHTS rom? that's about all I'd be able to do...

Hey, You shouldn't openly ask about Roms. they ARE illegal, you know. However, a decent and REALLY GOOD working emulator is SSF. However, it plays best with an actual CD not a ROM. Most ROMs of NiD don't run well on the few Saturn emulators that still work.

I'm sure you can buy a cheap NiGHTS CD, w/o case and all, off ebay or heck even ask around.
(And for legal reasons, my Saturn is sitting in my closet, fools. I just have NO TV!!)

As for the topic, I think it'll behard to get -NEW GAMERS- into the retro NiGHTS. One, it's really freaking hard for people (apparently) and that turns even hard-core gamers off. I think he should try it, but don't be too offended if he doesn't like it.
My biggest flame war about NiD being not liked is GRAPHICS. I hate when YOUNG'INS (I'm old, stfu) comment on my youtube videos about how crappy the NiD graphics are compared to JOD. I don't think SOME PEOPLE get that the game is over 11 years old AND IT WAS MIGHTY FINE BACK IN MY DAY!

So, let him tests the waters with NiD. Maybe even show him videos. But have him try to play it. The controls are waaaay better imo but he might not like it at all. Just don't be mad if he doesn't. It's just... ... how some people are, regrettably. ( miss old Sonic games)

#22
Mitsuu

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Haven't gotten to play JoD yet, but NiD is fine with me. And if you ask me, the graphics still look awesome. Since I first played NiGHTS on the computer, I'm so used to using the arrow keys that when I try using a controller to play I screw up everything. But the X-Box 360 controller has a nice analog stick for it.

#23
Hime Blue

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I got NiD and JoD around the same time, so I think I might have a sort of different opinion than the others here.

Since I'd gotten used to the flying mechanics in JoD I thought I'd do well in NiD--good lord was I wrong! F'd Spring Valley and Gilli. I can vouch for NiD being much harder in some respects, but I'd have to say that the bosses have a bit more of a pattern in that game which is easier to catch on to than in JoD where the only boss I didn't have issues with was Wizeman. The game and dreams do get harder as you go in both games but the difference seems more distinct in NiD. Old-style gamers and people who like racing games seem to like NiD in my experience and I've had people from all gaming places like JoD.

As for the story and open-endedness... yes NiD's a lot more open ended, there's a lot less 'story' so to say so people made their own stories for years. JoD gave a story and more constraints went with that. I didn't have a lot of 'story making time' so to speak (got into NiGHTS when the second game was about to be released) so having a little bit of story was nice to go on for fanfic and the like. Some people like the constraints and others like the open ended story and the imagination they can put into it. It's a matter of taste just like with game mechanics.

Personally however, I think that for not only the historic value but for the sheer fun and fast gameplay people should at least give NiD a chance. :D

#24
Noctourne Wonderland

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As for the topic, I think it'll behard to get -NEW GAMERS- into the retro NiGHTS. One, it's really freaking hard for people (apparently) and that turns even hard-core gamers off. I think he should try it, but don't be too offended if he doesn't like it.
My biggest flame war about NiD being not liked is GRAPHICS. I hate when YOUNG'INS (I'm old, stfu) comment on my youtube videos about how crappy the NiD graphics are compared to JOD. I don't think SOME PEOPLE get that the game is over 11 years old AND IT WAS MIGHTY FINE BACK IN MY DAY!

So, let him tests the waters with NiD. Maybe even show him videos. But have him try to play it. The controls are waaaay better imo but he might not like it at all. Just don't be mad if he doesn't. It's just... ... how some people are, regrettably. ( miss old Sonic games)


NiD can be pretty hard at first. I didn't have the guide when I played it, so I was like, "And now...I what?" :P It definately takes practice.

Are NiD's graphics really that bad? I tend to not pay a terrible amount of attentinon to graphics, but NiD is snazzy.

I think the biggest turn-off from NiD aside from it's difficulty is people just not getting it. Slow down, fellers! Let Ol' Noctourne explain! But alas, I start rambling about Ideya and minions and Wizeman, and I lose them at "Once upon a time." :D

But make sure everyone who plays NiD gets it. It's a pretty deep game if you understand what's going on.

#25
Nemoide

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I'm always a bit surprised to read that people find NiD to be a hard game. I think it should take less than an hour of playing to get the basics down (collect the blue things to collect the colored sphere, bring it back to the magic gazeebo before time runs out, repeat).

Maybe I've just been playing so long I'm just used to getting "A" ratings all the time for every level? And I don't even consider myself that good since my Links never get all that high, it's rare for me to get over 100.

I mean, NiGHTS has nothing on classic arcade games like Metal Slug or Bubble Bobble when it comes to intense difficulty.

#26
Mitsuu

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I've always wondered how you watch the opening videos for the children. I've seen them on the site, but I don't know how to watch them ingame.

#27
Kentilan

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I've always wondered how you watch the opening videos for the children. I've seen them on the site, but I don't know how to watch them ingame.

I think you just have to wait at the title screen.

#28
Pyrii

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It's hard to play it when the Saturn is impossible to emulate and the game/Saturn itself is next to impossible to get a hold of. Unless you're going to invite me round for coffee and NiGHTS playing :3

#29
Mitsuu

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It's hard to play it when the Saturn is impossible to emulate and the game/Saturn itself is next to impossible to get a hold of. Unless you're going to invite me round for coffee and NiGHTS playing :3

The Saturn is far from impossible to emulate. I play NiGHTS perfectly on my laptop.

#30
Tethys

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(collect the blue things to collect the colored sphere, bring it back to the magic gazeebo before time runs out, repeat).

LOL :)

Being someone who played the original NiGHTS to death, I'm a bit biased. But it does show its age in the modern gaming environment.

1. Play same segments over and over for a decent score
2. Seven levels, seven bosses... that's it
3. VERY little story, mostly left open to interpretation
4. Nifty A-Life system, but limited to use during regular gameplay

JoD "fixed" all of that. It's possible to get an A rank without dozens of extra laps, each stage has extra missions, the story is spelled out, and My Dream gives your Pians a nice place to hang out. On the other hand, JoD is still missing several gameplay components that made the original what it was. So I think it's pretty much a stalemate between the two, and it all depends on each individual player as to which is best.

#31
Musashi_HUmar

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True enough. But I liked all those things about the original. It just made me feel better. Plus, having to do the same segments multiple times to get an A makes you see everything about the dream in better detail.

#32
Narco

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I played JoD first, but always felt compelled to the original just because I've always been a "back to basics" kind of person. I got my Saturn off eBay, and enjoy NiD a whole lot better than JoD. I think NiD has more of an imaginary side to it, and was created with a lot more thought put into and filled with a whole lot more mystery (hence the whispers in Jackle's theme, whether or not the kids are dreamnig in the Twin Seeds level, etc.) JoD just seemed like it was trying to hard to be like the original and because I could feel that in the gameplay, it turned me off. :D

I whole-heartily agree that fans who have only played JoD need to get their hands on a Saturn and a copy of NiD asap!

#33
Huruyami

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I like the original better. When I was a little kid I would see NiGHTS cameos in my sonic games and i'd be like O: WHAT IS THAT PURPLE THING. I eventually bought a saturn, nights demo and full nights at local flea markets (lol, the south rules for having such varied items at flea markets) and I've been in love with it since. I like JoD as a game, but not as a NiGHTS title.....if that makes sense.

#34
Rachell

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well I like both games equally, maybe JoD wasn't that good and they could have did a better job with the plot, but come'on it wasn't THAT bad, I'd really enjoyed it, of course NiD keeps being recomendable

#35
Musashi_HUmar

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I would recommend NiD to anyone who is really looking for something different in gaming. It's an amazing game with so many wonderful things about it.

#36
vincentdante

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JoD "fixed" all of that. It's possible to get an A rank without dozens of extra laps, each stage has extra missions, the story is spelled out, and My Dream gives your Pians a nice place to hang out. On the other hand, JoD is still missing several gameplay components that made the original what it was. So I think it's pretty much a stalemate between the two, and it all depends on each individual player as to which is best.


I agree they are about equal for me as well, I wish they would now make a NiGHTS game with all the good elements from both games to make it perfect.

My fave things about both games

NID:
multiple run through laps
Can explore the levels on foot (JOD had invisible walls blocking of most of the levels)

JOD:
Multiple level objectives (if they all played like the main levels that's a lot of NiGHTS :))
Dreamdrops (I like exploring on foot and dreamdrops gave me more of an excuse to walk around)

#37
Noctourne Wonderland

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I agree they are about equal for me as well, I wish they would now make a NiGHTS game with all the good elements from both games to make it perfect.

My fave things about both games

NID:
multiple run through laps
Can explore the levels on foot (JOD had invisible walls blocking of most of the levels)

JOD:
Multiple level objectives (if they all played like the main levels that's a lot of NiGHTS :P)
Dreamdrops (I like exploring on foot and dreamdrops gave me more of an excuse to walk around)

I think that the Dreamdrops should have unlocked both the original dreamers and their levels in the broken doors in the Dream Gate. The levels would preferably look like the fancy PS2 re-release, with the same features as JoD's levels, such as a harder boss battle, link attack, the classic version of NiGHTS, and time attack. :lol:

#38
Mr.Me

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(Note, i have not played the original NiGHTS, but i've seen enough of it to get a general idea of it)

To me, it seems that it depends on what games you prefer
JoD had a main storyline which the levels and events in the game followed
NiD had a lesser storyline if you get what i mean

Like in JoD, You Rescued their ideya (which made them stronger of heart) opened up a new are of their heart, in which they rescue the next ideya, making them stronger etc.
NiD, you have all of your ideya, which then gets stolen, and then you rescue them.


like with the original sonic games, it's like okay, you beat the level, RANDOM LEVEL IDEA!!! i honestly think they took the first 6 ideas they got and put them in the game
the classic calm first level, epic desert/lava level, a water level, a maze level, a space level, then the lair

Back on topic, if your more into a detailed story line, you'll tend to like JoD more
If your into mainly gameplay and like less of a storyline, you'll tend to like NiD more

thats what i see

#39
Noctourne Wonderland

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like with the original sonic games, it's like okay, you beat the level, RANDOM LEVEL IDEA!!! i honestly think they took the first 6 ideas they got and put them in the game
the classic calm first level, epic desert/lava level, a water level, a maze level, a space level, then the lair

:blink:

I've noticed the Green Hill Zone/ Spring Valley similarities, but there are a lot of parrallels with early Sonic.

I love the mental image of frantic Sega people just coming up with random ideas. For example:

Crazy Game Designer #1: Let's have water!
Crazy Game Designer#2: Perfect! And NiGHTS can become a MERMAID! 8D
#1: And he can fly though bubbles!
#2: And the bubble can float in the middle of nowhere!
Yuji Naka: PERFECT!

#40
Mr.Me

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Serious game designer: maybe we can make a game with an in-depth storyline
Yuji Naka: YOUR FIRED!!!




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