I received a stock response to my complaint. It's obvious that Sega aren't going to fix it and I think it's sad that even the fanbase are fairly tolerant of this mistake. A missed opportunity and a shame.

That's perfectly normal, you can't draw conclusions from that because the support staff aren't the ones who decide whether or not a patch gets made. I received this response:

Thank you for contacting SEGA Europe.

Your comments are very much appreciated by SEGA and have been passed on to the relevant department.

If I can be of any further help, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Again, you'll probably have received a similar response. The key thing is, like Charlie said, to get the number of emails high enough so that they can't be easily ignored. That makes it all the more important that everyone here contacts them.

Comparing the videos I recorded, they look the same to me. The UI is stretched in Saturn mode since it's still using the old UI designed for 4:3, otherwise the view looks the same. I didn't post a comparison of the Saturn mode in my video since the controls seemed identical. May have to do some more research.

one of them is xmas NiGHTS (you need A's in xmas NiGHTS) and the other is whatever dreamer you completed it with's other video ending. You need to replay Twin Seeds again with that dreamer. Then the locked video will appear. It occurs because you dont see it the first time as you get a joint ending and miss the single other one for the other dreamer. (... i'm aware that sounds confusing, lol, but it makes sense when you do it).

I think I understand, thanks

Just disconnect it from the internet.

Kinda stupid I didn't try that before, but you're right, this works! I got all the A-grades now (together with an unexpected top 25 score on Splash garden) and unlocked all the achievements. I still haven't unlocked two remaining movies though, anyone know what I need to do to get those?

Thanks for the support TRiPPY!

I used the Sega Europe support link in the OP to ask about the possibility of an update/patch for analog control. The response said they'd passed my comments on to the developers.

Yeah, I think everyone should at least open a support ticket. There's no need to spam them and open multiple tickets, just one ticket will do. I don't really agree that they shouldn't be lengthy. If anything that just shows we care about the game. We don't have that many fans that they wouldn't be able to read them all.

The main reason I don't think it's a good idea to wait and see what happens is that not only does that mean that we're stuck with the controls, but also that the PC version might be released with the exact same control problems. I don't see why our feedback would need to be viewed by Sega as something negative as long as we provide constructive criticism. All they'd need to understand is that we like the game but would like better controls. I don't see how that would be translated to "the fans say hey hate the entire game".

Of course, if the majority wants to wait and see or accept the game as it is then I'll respect that decision. It's not my intention to barge in here and tell people what to do.

I think we should wait for TRiPPY and DiGi's lead before we do anything rash. They know the ins and outs of Sega far more than we do, so I'm certain they are formulating a plan as we speak. Until then, we should discuss what other issues can be resolved within this port's budget.

I can't speak for TRiPPY and DiGi of course, but DiGi's post seemed to suggest that this is basically a done deal and that we'll have to live with the controls remaining the way they are. I'd certainly like to hear their opinion about us contacting support. Like I said, I don't see why we shouldn't at least try. I'm also worried about waiting too long before contacting Sega. I fear that the control issues are really going to hurt the replayability of the game, which in turn may cause people to quickly forget about the HD version and dismiss it as a poor port. That's not what I want to see happen.

We don't really have a thread specifically about the controls yet, so I hope I'm allowed to create this new one. I think we should look into contacting Sega regarding the lack of precision in the controls of the HD version. At least, I don't see the harm in trying! If I've learned anything from the NiGHTS community, it's that they're good at this kind of thing Initial sales for the game seem to be promising, which is actually really important. I've seen people say they're holding of on buying the game until the control problem is fixed. I strongly encourage them to buy the game anyway. NiGHTS as a franchise depends on this game. If the game is profitable, we can probably expect to see more NiGHTS ports on the next-gen systems. Those ports could resolve the issues we have in the current HD port. But if it doesn't sell, we can forget about seeing NiGHTS again. The control issues aren't worth risking that, especially given how low the price of the game is.

Also, the PC version isn't even out yet. If the console versions sell, Sega may yet invest additional resources into fixing the controls for it. And who knows, if we get lucky they may patch the console versions as well. With that said, I made this video in the hopes of illustrating the problem. I think it really shows the difference between the Saturn version and the HD version:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnrnj6aRzwk

I've looked at the PS3 version as well, it seems a bit better than the XBox360 version in terms of controls, but it's still not comparable to the PS2 version and the original game.I think our best chance of getting something done is simply contacting Sega's support (seemed to work for Binary Domain when Steam users contacted Sega about control issues, and for the PS3 port of Bayonetta). I don't think a petition is really helpful in this case as we don't quite have the numbers to make a real impression, better to have a 100 support emails than 100 signatures on a petition in my opinion. I think these are the two links we can use:

America: https://segaofamerica.zendesk.com/home
Europe/other: https://support.sega.co.uk/home

Click "submit a request" to open a ticket with support. Obviously we should to send constructive feedback. For example, tell them you like the game and would like for it to be a success, but emphasize that the controls are really important for the replayability of the game and that the current controls do not allow the level of control needed to get the link chains that were possible in the Saturn version. If you bought the game on multiple platforms, or you're in the top leaderboards for a certain level, you can mention that as well. I'll elaborate a bit more tomorrow, and will then contact their support myself as well.

So, any thoughts on this, think it's a good or bad idea? Or does anyone have other suggestions?

Looks like NiGHTS is at #3 in the top daily XBLA sales: http://marketplace.x...estSellingToday. Not a bad start. It could use a higher user rating though! If anyone here hasn't voted yet, please do (and preferable a good score ).

Being a port of the PS2 version, it still has all the issues the PS2 version had. Charlie documents 'em all pretty well here. Probably the biggest issues (aside from the controls of course) center around NiGHTS' decreased speed, the decreased boost you get from bumpers, and the reduced size of the paraloop on the Z Axis. All of these things make some of the larger links you were able to get in the Saturn version impossible.

That's interesting, but according to Alex Atkin on the Sega forums, like timings are improved compared to the PS2 version:

http://forums.sega.c...sion-vs-the-PS2

So I'm not sure if all those points in the document are still valid? In any case, I think we should have a separate thread to discuss the problems rather than this one. Do the moderators here mind if I start a new one?

I guess I need to work on those A-scores. That said, I guess that means it's not possible to set the system time when you have an account that's been connected to XBox Live then?

EDIT: so I got the A-scores, finished the game but still no witch costume in Mystic Forest. Anyone know what exactly I'm doing wrong?

Forgive the double post, but I think we need to get something done here and start contacting Sega's support. If I've learned anything, it's that the NiGHTS fans have remained optimistic and constructive every step of the way of achieving their goals. If you can convince Sega to rerelease a game, then getting them to patch that same game should be far from impossible. For example, Sega patched the PC version of Binary Domain even though it was already obvious the game wasn't going to sell. People banded together on Steam and contacted support, all the while giving them constructive feedback on the issues. Not too long afterwards, a large number of control problems were fixed. Most other larger companies I know (like Ubisoft) would never have done that, but Sega did.

If the Binary Domain fans can achieve that, then why shouldn't it be possible to do the same for NiGHTS? First of all, the PC version isn't even out yet (which might end up being a good thing). If we start sending them feedback now, we may have a shot at getting them to fix at least the PC version. Better yet, that can lead to a patch for the XBLA/PSN version as well (most likely the PC version will be optimized for the XBox360 pad anyway, like Jet Set Radio HD).

So I feel like instead of being negative or just accepting this as something we'll have to live with, we should at least try and contact Sega first. Here's a video I made that tries to illustrate the problem with the controls that we could send to them:



The issue is not with the controller, as the video proves. Also, the fact that the PS2 version emulated in HD looks remarkably similar to the HD version suggests that technically the HD version is probably based on the same code. For that reason, I don't think it should be impossible for them to replicate the controls of the PS2 version either.

DiGi, TRiPPY, I'm not sure what you think about trying to contact Sega? I'd love to hear your thoughts. Perhaps they didn't see this as enough of an issue to fix when you reported the problems, but I don't see why that can't change. I think there's definitely strength in numbers here.

I just bought the game on PSN after getting the XBLA version. Normally I only get the PC version, but since that one isn't out yet and this is of course NiGHTS we're talking about, I decided to make an exception and support the game by getting multiple copies. Not just because I still regard NiGHTS as the best game ever, but also because it's really important that this game succeeds for us to see more Saturn remakes *cough*Panzer Dragoon*cough*.

I'm more curious about the method that was used to port this game. Is it an ISO of the PS2 version running on an emulator, or was the whole thing made from scratch using the PS2 version's assets? I ask because I never played the PS2 version.

I'm pretty sure it's a port of the PS2 version, I'm guessing they took the code and converted it to XBLA/PSN. I've been doing some testing between all the different versions, and running on PCSX2 the Sega Ages version looks near identical to the HD versions. The control issues don't seem to be present on the PS2 version though, they're much closer to the Saturn version. So I have to wonder if these control problems are really that difficult to fix. It's almost as if the developers thought the original game used digital controls only, and simply converted the analog input from the controller to digital input. But the PS2 version also had analog controls, so I can't imagine them making that mistake... The problem is easy to note when you just try to run circles with NiGHTS: in the HD versions you're going to make more of a hexagonal or even rounded square sort of shape. It's most likely similar to what you'd get when using a D-pad on the original Saturn. The Saturn version has you making actual circles, and the PS2 version seems very close to the Saturn in terms of analog controls. I'm looking into creating a video comparing all the versions to show what I just described.

Apparently it's possible to get these easter eggs on the HD version as well:



July 20th: Play Splash Garden as Claris in a summer outfit.
August 31st: Play Splash Garden as Elliot in a summer outfit.
October 1st-30th: Play Mystic Forest as Claris in a witch costume.
October 31st: Play Mystic Forest as Elliot in a vampire costume.

Someone reported that he got the witch costume one, which seems to make sense since we're in October now, but it's not working for me. Also, apparently you can't change the system clock on the XBox360 when you're logged into XBox live. And when I log out, change the system time and start the game, it asks me to log in again which I'm guessing will alter the system time again. Anyone know how this works?

First of all, I hope everyone here doesn't let the controls ruin the game for them. The NiGHTS fans have always remained optimistic despite the setbacks (Journey of Dreams), so to drown the rerelease in negative would be such a waste. A lot depends on this game being a success. If it doesn't sell, it's really going to hurt our chances of seeing any other Saturn remakes. The fact that you're playing NiGHTS on XBox360/PSN after all this time is something of a miracle in itself. Keep in mind that this doesn't have to be the last time we see a conversion of the original NiGHTS. But if it fails, it probably will be.

DiGi, I'm not sure if you can talk about this, but the PC version isn't out yet. Now Sega claims it's under development, but the way it usually goes with conversion like this, I have a feeling it might be mostly finished already. If that's actually the case, it's probably better for you not to mention that If it's still actually under development, then isn't there a chance for them to tweak the controls? Or even patch the XBox360/PSN version. The problem isn't the controller, running NiGHTS in SSF with an XBox360 controller replicates the original Saturn controls very well. I already made a video comparing the two version and demonstrating the problem in more detail (using SSF with the XBox360 controller, and the actual XBox360 versions). I'm not exactly sure I want to upload it yet though, I'd suggest creating a thread specifically to discuss the control issues so it doesn't end up drowning out all the other feedback.

Right squealing aside, we need to make this SPREAD.

I'm going to need all of you guys to do your absolute best at getting this news around to everyone.

It's already trending on Twitter #NiGHTS HD so keep that up.

Put it all over your social networking sites, blogs and websites.

push push push.

I'll definitely spread the word, not just because I consider NiGHTS to be the best game I've ever played, but also because I want to see Panzer Dragoon return as well. And the more NiGHTS sells, the better of a chance we'll have at seeing more Saturn games rereleased. We could probably use some updated banners now that the rerelease has been confirmed

Are there actually any other websites like nid15.com for other classic Saturn titles? I'm asking because I'm currently working on a website similar to nid15.com but for the Panzer Dragoon series. Panzer Dragoon Saga has its 15th anniversary next year, with the XBox title Panzer Dragoon Orta also reaching its 10 year anniversary at the end of the year. Couple that with the upcoming release of Project Draco, the Saturn conversions to XBLA and the ongoing support for nid15.com, and there's really no better time to start this project and try to get Sega to port the old Panzer Dragoon games to XBLA/PSN.

Obviously I'd have my website link to nid15.com, as I still regard the original NiGHTS to be one of the best games I've ever played. I hope nid15.com could then do the same and link back to my website, as I think we could only benefit from the synergy between the two communities. I'm currently coding the website from the ground up and I still have quite a bit of work to do, but I hope to have it up and running in a couple of weeks from now.