49 replies to this topic

[jackle10]

I wonder if jackle will appear in JoD


you can tell i'm a jackle fan!

[AYRiES]

I actuall don't think so, which completely sucks because I love Jackle, way more than Reala. But Reala had a bigger deal of him even in the first game, since as he was so similar he got used in 2player etc... I mean a lot of it *is* still fandom, but Jackle doesn't get as much attention by fans let alone Sega so I doubt he'll be put in. Plus obviosuly with the similarities between NiGHTS and Reala there's obvious plot there which is more likely to be picked up on than making something completely up for Jackle.

As I said, sucks... Hopefully I'm wrong. Really, really hope so... (If he DOES come back, I want him to get a really cool costume and stuff and be really tall.)

[Purgatory]

I don't think he will be. I think the top three, Wizeman, Reala, and NiGHTS, may be the only ones.

[Sairus]

I really am curious about him... I'm fairly certain none of the other big 'uns will make it in, but Jackle could do it... is doubtful, since, as AYRiES pointed out, his fandom just isn't powerful enough.
Now other human shaped Marens is what I'm looking out for. Let's all just pray they don't go Sonic on NiGHTS ass and start throwing in new characters every time they need a plot point... when the new humarens do rear their heads (and they will do it eventually) lets hope it's for a very just and valid reason... and that they look badass... none of this Emo/Cockatoo buisness.

[AYRiES]

Now other human shaped Marens is what I'm looking out for. Let's all just pray they don't go Sonic on NiGHTS ass and start throwing in new characters every time they need a plot point... when the new humarens do rear their heads (and they will do it eventually) lets hope it's for a very just and valid reason... and that they look badass... none of this Emo/Cockatoo buisness.

If they DO make a humaren, I want one that is all rainbow and sparkly and when you meet them they smile and giggle and laugh and are nice and "try to help", and get childisly outraged at being attacked and get angry on pians' behalf or something... but then they end up being completely evil and they were just playing around with you.

...Well, you have to admit, it'd be better than the standard evil=dark colour, nice=light colours thing, at least? XD

Anyway, another thing about Jackle. If NiGHTS really does talk, maybe he'll talk about the nightmarens that don't get in the game... and I'd say Jackle, being more well known and remembered than, say, Clawz, might make it in as a 'cameo' in something like that, rather than in as an actual boss. Just a thought.

[Louis]

God I hope not. Terrible boss I thought. Only one who wasn't fun to fight, just a chore.

[Tangocat777]

I can't see it happening. This also means that there is like barely any chance for my favorite maren. Well, maybe we'll see a boss that's similar to Jackle, like Phuckle is siilar to Puffy. I hope so. More of the same is the way to go when it comes to NiGHTS. There's always the chance that there will be more bosses than stages, as well.

[~Tsuki~]

No Phuckle is most definatly not the official name. lol (Unless they see the name and decide to use it? O.o;; ) It's just something we made up here to call it. XD Since it looks like a bad mix of Puffy with something else the name Phuckle was born. >_>

[Tangocat777]

I believe we had a topiclike this before. Things like what would happen if that name was final.

[Sairus]

God I hope not. Terrible boss I thought. Only one who wasn't fun to fight, just a chore.

I raise my glass to that opinion... at least his music was nice...

One thing I really hope that does not happen is standard Marens like Jackle and Puffy and whatnot becoming actual recurring characters... unless the plot takes an amazing turn for the more intricate they'll probably all just fall into Scratch and Grounder type comedy villains...

[Curiosity Inc.]

We need more original characters in JoD. If all we have are recurring characters, how can we call this a sequel?

[viperxmns]

God I hope not. Terrible boss I thought. Only one who wasn't fun to fight, just a chore.

I've said it before, but Jackle can be mad easy, you just have to make sure he doesn't get back to his cape once you knock him the first time. As long as you keep visual track of him as you whack him around, he's cake. (And his card pattern alternates, up down, up down.. or is it down up, down, up?.. well anywho..).

[Curiosity Inc.]

I don't mind new characters just as long as they don't keep adding more. IF they added too much then it would be like another new Sonic game. >.<
Either way some of the old character should recure just so we know that they are still exist as part of the whole rather than being a lost cause from a previous game. I really don't like it when old characters seem to all of a sudden just 'die' for some reason with no explanation, it would seem that being's existence was a loss cause to the older games. (Did that make any sense at all? X_X)

I agree there needs to be a balance.

If the cast is entirely new, you get some movie that could barely be called a sequel. But a cast with all the original characters can get stale. In the middle, you have the X-Men movies, which introduced too many characters without losing enough.

There has to be a balance.

[EZEKiAL]

It's simple. Jackle will run the black market where you buy art for the gallery and alternate costumes for NiGHTS and the kids...maybe a Reala reskin.
Had that idea since I was aware of ol' NiGHTS 2.

[~Tsuki~]

I believe we had a topiclike this before. Things like what would happen if that name was final.

lol I know that Tango, but since Jackle10 and Ekairi are both new here they wouldn't know about that. ^^ I was just trying to help make things clearer for them both.~

As for Jackle making an appearance in the game, I doubt it. He just wasn't high up enough on the maren food chain to make a comeback.

[EZEKiAL]

lol I know that Tango, but since Jackle10 is new here he/she wouldn't know about that. ^^ I was just trying to help make things clearer for him/her.

As for Jackle making an appearance in the game, I doubt it. He just wasn't high up enough on the maren food chain to make a comeback.

NiGHTS>Wizeman>Reala>Jackle.

<.< He's only in Fourth Place...

[~Tsuki~]

That's true, I guess we will have to wait and see.~ X3

Clawz should make a comeback and rule them all! *shot by the Jackle fans* >.>;

[Purgatory]

I don't think any other old 'Maren should come back, actually. There's no reason for it, other than fanboyish wishes.

[EZEKiAL]

I don't think any other old 'Maren should come back, actually. There's no reason for it, other than fanboyish wishes.

-slap-
>=3 Rawr.

[YamiLover13]

I wish Jackle would come back, but he proabably won't.

I think it is kinda unfair that the final boss before Wizeman that Clairs had to fight is not being seriously considered like Reala who Elliot had to fight. What so are they saying Clairs got the less important maren? WTF?! I think he should be given an oppertunity to be in the new game. He is my favorite character. But who knows, maybe him not being in the new game might save him from seeming worse in the new game. We don't even know if Reala being in this game is going to be a good thing or not.

[Louis]

I've said it before, but Jackle can be mad easy, you just have to make sure he doesn't get back to his cape once you knock him the first time. As long as you keep visual track of him as you whack him around, he's cake. (And his card pattern alternates, up down, up down.. or is it down up, down, up?.. well anywho..).

Well yes, that's all good and well, but it doesn't rxactly make the fight fun.

[Exploding-Man]

Its prettymuch all been said. I mean Clawz isn't showing his face, so I doubt any of the other bosses outside of Reala and Wizeman will show their faces.

[KyraWolf]

I don't think I'd want him as a boss again (True, he's my favorite boss, but...) but I just don't want to have repeating bosses... I mean, if it was Claris and Elliot again, then SURE! But its not, and since dreamers are different, I expected different bosses.

Though, a cameo... say... in little cut scenes along the way would be cool. :3

[NNR07]

What Kyra said :3.

I doubt he'll come back. If he does, he might be a cameo. If he is a boss, I'm POSITIVE his boss fight we be different from the original, but I doubt he'll come back.

What Kyra and Purg said x3.

*hides from NiGHTS bomb*

[Purgatory]

Apparently, I have been RAGE!MISSIL'D~ Therefore, I will be writing this from beyooond the graaaave! XD

So, in MY ghosty opinion, I think he should NOT be a boss. He should NOT be some little guy wandering around who attacks you sometimes, like a minion 'Maren, and if he DOES appear, he should only be in some kind of a cut scene, as Kyra said.

As for the whole "Elliot more important" thing, I don't agree with that at all, that isn't what they're trying to say. Last time I checked, Sega wasn't a bunch of kids sitting in a sandbox talkin' smack about fictional characters. XD But those three were the three in charge- the two first levels that Wizeman made and Wizeman himself. I would love to see what they would all look like with the different, better graphics, but not to play against..

[jackle10]

I was a bit curios on that, Thanks for your answers.

[Curiosity Inc.]

It's not that Elliot is more important, it's that Reala is more important.

[Purgatory]

It's not that Elliot is more important, it's that Reala is more important.

THANK YOU.

[EZEKiAL]

The cutscene:

-NiGHTS walks into a dark room- Wow, sure is dark in here...

YEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!

NiGHTS: Ugh...I can bet I know who that is...

Jackle: Heheheehehee!!! So good to see you again, NiGHTS!!!

NiGHTS: <.< Jackle, I really don't have time to talk. I'm lookin' for Reala.

Jackle: ...oh. -face saddens-

NiGHTS: Aw, c'mon, buddy! =3 I brought caaaaaaaaaaake...

Jackle: =3

NiGHTS: -makes his escape before Jackle goes apeshit on his purple ass-

[TRiPPY]

If i hear anything i'll let you know.

But like i said,

bat Jackle in a sombrero *snort*


No doubt he'll be overwritten like the rest of the crew.

[Roam]

It'd nice to be see more returning Nightmaren.

[Avenrir]

It's interesting that everything we've seen, character-wise at least, has been "similar, but not the same" as things from NiGHTS into dreams...

The kids both liking sport/musical stuff, the 'Patches' boss looking like Puffy, and NiGHTS is... well... NiGHTS. XD

Maybe the rest of the game will be of a similar vein. Maybe there will be a Jackle-like boss, but redone in the style they're using for the game? ( and if it's done in the same visual style as the 'Patches' boss, I'll be very, very happy. )

I guess what I'm saying is, if he is in it, I doubt he'd appear as the Jackle that we know from the first game.

[Golden Charm]

Right.

There's a few things I want to touch on.

Firstly, I don't think Jackle will be a full fledged boss. What I would like to see happen, is Jackle entering the game as a miniboss, who flies around the mares, as you do, trying to steal your chips and prevent you from regaining the Ideya, presuming of course that basis of the game hasn't changed. Perhaps even to go as far as to say that he could steal the Ideya before you do, having a major effect on your score, or having to catch him and knock him out the air to get it back.

Secondly, about the conversation which said about the Sonic characters and adding too many new characters.
What would you term as too many new characters?
Sonic Adventure 1 had just 2 new characters. Granted Big just introduced a mini game, and E-102 was a tester, to see what it would be like to play from a villains perspective, at least for the start.
Sonic Adventure 2 had just 2 new characters too. Shadow and Rouge. Shadow was just a Sonic rip off and Rouge was just a Knuckles rip off, so that the evil side was the same gameplay wise as the hero side.
Sonic Heroes introduced just one new character, and this character was a rip off of E-102, who self terminated in SA1.

Thats 5 characters in 3 games. NiGHTS JoD already has the two children, plus it seems likely to be every boss except Wizeman and Reala. If the numbers are the 7, thats essentially 7 new characters.

To put things back on a fairer scale though, from Sonic 1 to Sonic 2, there was just 1 new character. Tails.

So if you think introducing too many new characters is a mistake, then its one which has already been made.

Personally, I think they should introduce as many new characters as possible, so that if there are any further sequels, they have characters to re-use so their fandom doesn't begin to bitch each time they try to add a spice of originality to their creation. Since this is only the second NiGHTS game, they have so much of the world they can work on and get away with, since there is still so much which is a mystery.

For example: Humarens.
Quite a lot of people complain about fan-made humarens, saying that NiGHTS, Reala and Jackle are the only ones.
The truth is no-one really knows that for sure. NiGHTS into dreams revolved around two people and NiGHTS trying to defeat Wizeman. Who knows if Wizeman is the only being like him in the world, there could be other Wizeman type forms looking to conquer reality through dreams too, who other people are stopping. Or Wizeman could make a Humaren army to do his evil deeds. The small fact is, so little is known about the NiGHTS universe because there's only been one game, that no-one could really say either way if Humarens are common or not.

(My god, this looks like an uber-rant XD)

[Sairus]

Firstly, my apologies if this response isn't completely cohesive, it's late and I'm fairly certain I start drifting off topic a lot...

I don't think Jackle will be a full fledged boss. What I would like to see happen, is Jackle entering the game as a miniboss, who flies around the mares, as you do, trying to steal your chips and prevent you from regaining the Ideya

A suggestion I was going to make myself before I read your post XD

Thats 5 characters in 3 games. NiGHTS JoD already has the two children, plus it seems likely to be every boss except Wizeman and Reala. If the numbers are the 7, thats essentially 7 new characters.

To put things back on a fairer scale though, from Sonic 1 to Sonic 2, there was just 1 new character. Tails.

That's selective reasoning. The bosses from NiD had just as much effect on the story as the various mechs Robotnik used in Sonic (which is to say, none), so if you're going to include the Marens in your totals then those mechs would have to be too, which brings new characters in Sonic 2 from one to eleven.
However, I think the main problem people have with the characters in Sonic is not the rate in which they appear, it's the consistancy of their appearences... every sonic game introduces new characters at this point, and nearly every Sonic game then gives those characters playable parts, which dilutes the game and makes the story overly messy. The fact remains that these characters generally do serve a purpose, but they do not have to reappear in every title yet most still do. Secret Rings is one of the most solid Sonic titles in a while and that's partly due to the game completely focusing on him... who can say they really enjoyed the side character parts in Sonic 2006?
The list of recurring characters in Sonic is now Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Vector, Charmy, Espio, Rouge, Shadow, Silver, Cream, Amy, Big, Robotnik, Metal Sonic, The E-Series, Blaze and the Babylon Rogues. That is a lot of characters that really don't need to be popping as playable characters in games continually. (Though admitadly, I will fully approve of this entire cast being made playable in the sequel to Sonic Riders... just not in a standard adventure game)

If NiGHTS can limit the amount of playable characters then they can add in as many side characters as they want.

[Golden Charm]

That's selective reasoning. The bosses from NiD had just as much effect on the story as the various mechs Robotnik used in Sonic (which is to say, none), so if you're going to include the Marens in your totals then those mechs would have to be too, which brings new characters in Sonic 2 from one to eleven.

When you bring that up, I do you have to put on my hat of defeat. Although it was Robotnik in each of the machines. With his egg-o-matic, just with different attachments, it is a valid point.

However, I think the main problem people have with the characters in Sonic is not the rate in which they appear, it's the consistancy of their appearences... every sonic game introduces new characters at this point, and nearly every Sonic game then gives those characters playable parts, which dilutes the game and makes the story overly messy. The fact remains that these characters generally do serve a purpose, but they do not have to reappear in every title yet most still do. Secret Rings is one of the most solid Sonic titles in a while and that's partly due to the game completely focusing on him... who can say they really enjoyed the side character parts in Sonic 2006?
The list of recurring characters in Sonic is now Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy, Vector, Charmy, Espio, Rouge, Shadow, Silver, Cream, Amy, Big, Robotnik, Metal Sonic, The E-Series, Blaze and the Babylon Rogues. That is a lot of characters that really don't need to be popping as playable characters in games continually. (Though admitadly, I will fully approve of this entire cast being made playable in the sequel to Sonic Riders... just not in a standard adventure game)

Sonic, well, obviously, its his game.
Tails, yeah he's the sidekick.
Knuckles was good. There was rarely any incidents of the reformed villain back on the Mega-Drive
Amy sucks- but shes female, so it'll shut the people up who say Sonic is sexist.
Vector, Charmee and Espio are NOT valid cases to this point. Until Sonic Heroes, half of the people didn't even know these guys existed, which is saying a lot given the number of Sonic fans that exist. The evidence here is where the heck is Mighty?
Metallix (or Metal Sonic, if you must) was the clear anti-hero. There's literally millions of instances of this in loads of video games.

Rouge shouldn't exist, she was created to fill a role which shouldn't need to have been filled. (In other words I'm saying SA2 shouldn't exist)
Shadow, see above.
Silver, I can't form any opinion of, I hae never played the game with Silver in it. I find it a bit mysterious how he is in the list since as far as I know, he's/she's only been in one released game.
The Babylon Rogues....Who?

Out of all of those, I have to say that I'm not counting Sonic Riders as a game, because its a sell out counter to Mario soccer, blahblahblah.
As you say, those characters are playable, which makes me ponder, if people dislike that about the Sonic characters, what will the fandom will think of the new kids, or even the old ones. They were selectable, but the didn't really make any difference on the game. The Sonic characters changed the speed, style or explorability of the game.
It is true, though, that a lot of the new characters could be replaced by old forgotten ones, like Mighty or Fang/Nack the Weasel. I do believe that Sonic Team were trying to add a new original feature to keep fans interested in most of these cases, and in most of the cases all it gets them is slander. So in a way its working, all the fans are buying the games to see how they've messed it up in their eyes.

If NiGHTS can limit the amount of playable characters then they can add in as many side characters as they want.

Probably.
We know the playable characters revealed so far are Helen, William and NiGHTS and if its consistent to the other game, the kids don't really DO anything.


The way I'm beginning to see the game isn't a NiGHTS into dreams sequal. I'm beginning to look at it as NiGHTS into Britain. Essentially a Britain-like remake. A bit like Glasgow/Simpson's/whatever Monopoly.

We have William, a kid who is mad about football. Instead of Elliot, who was mad about basketball.
Helen, who plays a violin. Opposed to Claris, who sings.
NiGHTS appearance has changed, he looks a whole lot posher, almost like a music conductor with the frills he has now.
The new Puffy-like boss, is all stitched up, so either its Puffy, who would need to be stitched together after the crushplosion. Or one of the kids has genuine nightmares about sewing.
Helen:"But mother no-one sews anymore as a past-time its not the 1970's"



Right. I think I should say this time, as I should have said last time, that I'm really not directing this at anyone. I just feel that people shouldn't get in a bad mood or say bad things about the game just because of what happens with another series made by the same people.
I mean look at Final Fantasy, it has a lot of critics. I know a few people who won't even play a Final Fantasy game because it has the words Final Fantasy in it. Yet the Star Ocean series is nothing to be sniffed at.

Basically, I see a lot of criticism around the board and unfortunately, this topic was the one which pushed me to point of saying all this. I say, at least let game be released before you start criticizing it, people.

Also, the more I think about the Jackle being an enemy which flies about the zone messing things up for you, the more I really begin to like the idea.

[iLLViLLAiN]

So if you think introducing too many new characters is a mistake, then its one which has already been made.

(My god, this looks like an uber-rant XD)

It ain't the problem of introducing too many characters. It's the problem of being forced to play as them.


DAMMIT YOU STUPID FUCKIN ROBOT MOVE YOUR SLOW ASS!!!

And that's what happened when I was forced to play as the robot on Sonic 360/PS3. Then again I wasn't forced cuz I could have just turned it off but you get what I'm sayin right?

The way I'm beginning to see the game isn't a NiGHTS into dreams sequal. I'm beginning to look at it as NiGHTS into Britain. Essentially a Britain-like remake. A bit like Glasgow/Simpson's/whatever Monopoly.

You know what? I think your absolutely right. And no offense against England but it seems like a boring place the violin seems like a boring instrument(then again I do like listening to it on Yellowcard cds). However soccer is cool because people break their bones which is AWESOME!!

[Sairus]

I actually think that Sonic 2006 got it closest to being right in terms of character balance... if only they had removed the sub-characters and left it as Sonic, Shadow and Silver... and given it a month of playtesting. XD

Vector, Charmee and Espio are NOT valid cases to this point. Until Sonic Heroes, half of the people didn't even know these guys existed, which is saying a lot given the number of Sonic fans that exist.

I would count them as valid since they all made appearences in Shadow the Hedgehog... thankfully they were absent from Sonic 2006, but I'm unwilling to bet on how long that will last.

Silver, I can't form any opinion of, I have never played the game with Silver in it. I find it a bit mysterious how he is in the list since as far as I know, he's/she's only been in one released game.

He was also in Sonic Rivals, which does fall into the racing bracket I'm okay with, but is evidence that he'll probably return in future titles. He was awesomely fun to play as in Sonic 2006.

We know the playable characters revealed so far are Helen, William and NiGHTS and if its consistent to the other game, the kids don't really DO anything.

They've been confirmed to have their own wee platforming/shooter sections, but I'm reserving judgement on that front... despite what it sounds like it could actually work well.
As far as I can see, SEGA have managed to get around the introduction of new characters with these Masks we've been hearing about, which sound like they give NiGHTS a whole new range of abilities akin to throwing in new guys.
However I come across as though, I am not against introducing no new playable characters. In fact, I would even enjoy some new Humarens if they can add the same enjoyment Silver injected to Sonic 2006... I just don't want it to become a 10 character game where after every level you change characters to play as NiGHTS, then Jackle, then Reala, then Puffy, then Gulpo... blah de blah.

The way I'm beginning to see the game isn't a NiGHTS into dreams sequal. I'm beginning to look at it as NiGHTS into Britain. Essentially a Britain-like remake. A bit like Glasgow/Simpson's/whatever Monopoly.

I'm still on the fence on that one... They seem to have changed things sufficantly to keep me happy in the main game, with those bird marens, the masks, children's shoot-em-up... which makes me think they're making a proper sequel. But the Fuckle/Puffle fight is far too similar to Puffy's battle for my liking if this isn't a remake XD

I've been thinking (with no evidence to back this up mind you) that maybe that bird maren is exclusive to that level we've seen in the video, maybe there'll be a different task in every stage that you have to complete in order to complete it? T'would be nice for Jackle to fill a slot like that... XD
Does anyone else have any ideas on possible ways for Jackle (or a remake of him) to appear in the game, aside from a cloned boss battle?

Mods: I apologies for this thread being derailed slightly with the Sonic characters discussion, I'll try to keep it more focused from now.