71 replies to this topic

[MORRiS1113]

Not head to head in the same sense as in NiD though; there, you fight him directly, with drill dashes and Paraloops. In JoD it's less direct because you only can toss the Mare Balloons at each other (adding the option to still be able to hit each other manually would be cool). I think the balloon toss can stay as a 2P match option, but nothing beats fighting each other with no barriers in between. Again, puzzle elements or other elements can be added to mix it up, but NiGHTS and Reala should be able to attack each other directly.

that may still be possible, well 1 sided really, Reala will go for the balls, but who knows. maybe if ur quick enough you can paraloop him. i never got him but i keep trying XD

[Beautiful Nightmare]

If they make a NiGHTS 3(big "if" there), I would like to see a more complex story, with new characters and concepts, dialogue, and a gameplay style similiar to the one from NiD(but not exactly the same).
Resuming, I would want them to expand NiGHTS' universe, make it bigger and more interesting.

Seriously guys, evolution is a part of life. Change, is a part of life. Do not fear it.

and NiGHTS had a very questionable voice which started a lot of controversy.

.......But wasn't that exactly the point? If NiGHTS is genderless, she should have a questionable voice.

[Noctourne Wonderland]

I could rant here, but no one will listen so, I'll sum up my thoughts two ways. First:

To wit, there are many elements that JoD has that can make it feel more 'complete' than NiD; things like being able to exit or restart a level from the pause menu (something the PS2 NiD has to a lesser extent, I believe), being able to fight Nightmaren as a standalone mission, extra 2P modes, getting bonus points for doing tricks through rings is cool, the concept of a lot of the new missions was sound (just needs a stronger scoring element a lot of the time, something that keeps you in the mission longer), where NiGHTS was concerned, and the idea to infuse more story bits is admirable (though a different approach may have been preferable.. still like the idea of Storybook style cut scenes). And a lot of the new graphic designs are prettier (still like those calligraphic score emblems). These sorts of things should certainly carry over to the next game.

In turn, a lot of what is wrong with JoD stems from the removal of elements from NiD, something a sequel should never do. A sequel should build up gameplay, not take away things that made the original game fun. The fact that NiGHTS can't air brake is weird; there's no stunt ribbon, no true head to head with Reala, the kids being unable to explore the levels and do their triple jumps like before.. we've gone over these things so many times but it always bears repeating, since all these things are such easy answers in regard to what needs to be done to make the third game more satisfying.

Since Iizuka and Co. have feedback now, maybe they can realize they didn't need to change so much of the gameplay for JoD. They don't need to fear restoring the Ideya Capture missions from NiD, since in this case we kinda want more of the same. Instead, they should play around with adding new twists to the classic style play. Maybe have missions where the Captures require something different to overload them. Maybe you have to bust different things, in different ways. Something new with the rings. Not every level even needs to play the exact same way. There's sooo much that can be toyed around with the basic structure of NiGHTS gameplay that has yet to be addressed.

Brilliant.

Second, when people hear that things were planned for NiD but taken out, they see it as an opportunity for fanart/fanfiction/whatever. When people hear that things were planned for JoD but taken out, they attack Sega and label JoD a bad game just becuase of what they had imagined, not becuase it's actually a bad game overall. NiD had things the could have been, and so did JoD. The original is not a flawless game, and Journey of Dreams is not a flawless game. But both are fun experiences that stand above the rest of Sega's output and most of the game industry; people get too caught up in bashing JoD to remember how much fun we had when it came out.

In closing, a sequel could address the problems of each game and create a perfect amalgamation of concepts. We're here because we love NiGHTS, not becuae we hate him.

[TRAViS]

I seem to have left my soapbox at work. So, I guess this pile of clothes will have to do.

*awkward step-up*

Taking on the challenge of creating a third NiGHTS is going to be nothing short of tricky. Big wigs are already looking at you with that "give me a break" look because your 2007 Wii game didn't generate the sales numbers they wanted. An entire community of NiGHTS devotees are hounding you left and right with either praise, criticism, requests, ideas, or any combination of those. A worldwide set of publications, blogs, and reviewers are lacking enthusiasm for your next title because of your development team's past foul-ups. And in a world where the closest people come to fleshing out and understanding their dreams and the dreams of others are through actors and actresses in movies by the likes of Inception, your story of a flying purple jester is laughable compared to the ability to bend time, space, and objects as you see fit. If there's an Inception game in the works (which I really, really hope to god there isn't), there could be no reason for the general public to consider such a game.

The key to success is going to lie in keeping the game engaging for the current generation while keeping similar mechanics to the Saturn version of years' past. But today's game market is just so drastically different from the Saturn era. Gone are the binder-thick instruction manuals full of every move and trick you can perform and the deep backstory behind the game's plot. Today's manuals are maybe eight pages thick including covers and a lengthy game-opening narrative leads into a half-hour-long tutorial. Don't get me wrong, in some games these are welcome but they've sadly become the norm. And I would wholeheartedly welcome this into a third NiGHTS as a necessary doing.

*slip on a pair of socks, correct footing*

But dear god please don't force me to re-learn the game I already know and love all over again. I want to pick up the controller, head into the first night, have my ideya stolen, walk into the fancy gazebo and take flight as I remember. Four mares, two minutes a mare, twenty blue chips, ideya capture, and enough items to fully link the first mare. Then go to a boss fight, send a balloon of an opera singer backflipping through some walls, and go to the next night. I don't think it's too much to ask, but sadly you can't sell 14-year-old gameplay in a 21st-century package.

I trust Iizuka to have learned from the mistakes, listen to feedback, and if by some chance he's given the green light for NiGHTS 3, I have no doubt that he'll be able to pull off something spectacular. But then it'll come down to how demanding the corporate goons are and whether he's given enough of a budget or time to see the game through to total completion. The better question isn't how he's going to do it, but if he's going to do it at all. And before that, if it'll even be him doing it. With SEGA's network of development studios, and ownership of the NiGHTS IP (correct me if I'm wrong, please, right in this post if you have to), it could go to anybody. We'll just have to wait and see.

*launches self down a makeshift slide of dirty shirts*

Wheee!

[Zero-Shift]

Certainly some interesting news. It's good to see NiGHTS is still on the mind of people at Sega. It's better than being essentially abandoned like some other franchises like Panzer Dragoon.

To add on some of what's been discussed about JoD, I agree with some of what DiGi and Viper said but I have my own idea of why JoD got a generally lukewarm reception. The game overall lacked focus and coherence. Yes, it tried to add new gameplay ideas, but the problem is when you try to make a game with a proverbial buffet selection of gameplay you need to design the game well enough that everything goes together well otherwise the final product will feel somewhat slapped together and people won't enjoy it. Few games seem to pull it off nowadays.

If a game has focus and development is central to one or two big ideas, the game feels more complete because there was more work put into fewer ideas. This in part is why I think the original was so well received from a gameplay standpoint. It knew what it wanted to be and pulled it off brilliantly. JoD's meandered too much in my opinion. It wanted to incorporate a lot but I'm willing to bet the system change and production troubles made it hard to realize those ideas.

i can see and understand your views. and i haven't overlooked NiGHTS race against the clock element. I admit its not one of my favorite parts of the game. I do like a challenge every now and again, and often do test my skills against that bloody thing, but i also like to cruise and explore.

If you are a fan of the original like you say then this statement utterly confounds me. Two reasons why.

1. If you didn't like racing against the clock why did you even like NiD at all? To its very core NiD was an arcade style, time based score attack game with very few frills. Score attack was the very heart of the gameplay yet you say it wasn't your favorite part. What was then?

2. You suggest part of the reason you enjoy JoD more is because you like to cruise and explore. If so then why isn't JoD more frustrating to you? A fair chunk of the levels don't even let you explore then in their entirety if at all. The only ones that consistently do are the bird chase sequences. Sure you have unlimited time when you're a kid but considering that most all the levels are designed to be interacted with in the air, unlimited time seems pointless when you're landlocked and you're still on a timer the moment you dualize, just like NiD. At best, the freedom to explore in JoD is just as bad if not worse than NiD from my perspective. In what way do you think it's better?

I also don't like how you're generalizing and giving reviewers and consumers so little credit because frankly you're wrong. Game Informer is a poor example because they're a terrible magazine. That they're owned by Gamestop itself makes their journalistic integrity dubious at best. Anyway, companies like safe bets. That's why you see so much of the same on the market. That doesn't mean that's all consumers want or that they're incapable of appreciating something inventive. If that were the case, how do you explain the recently released LIMBO getting such critical praise from all sides? What about Shadow of the Colossus frequently being considered one of the greatest games of last generation? Don't paint in broad strokes.

[MORRiS1113]

Certainly some interesting news. It's good to see NiGHTS is still on the mind of people at Sega. It's better than being essentially abandoned like some other franchises like Panzer Dragoon.

To add on some of what's been discussed about JoD, I agree with some of what DiGi and Viper said but I have my own idea of why JoD got a generally lukewarm reception. The game overall lacked focus and coherence. Yes, it tried to add new gameplay ideas, but the problem is when you try to make a game with a proverbial buffet selection of gameplay you need to design the game well enough that everything goes together well otherwise the final product will feel somewhat slapped together and people won't enjoy it. Few games seem to pull it off nowadays.

If a game has focus and development is central to one or two big ideas, the game feels more complete because there was more work put into fewer ideas. This in part is why I think the original was so well received from a gameplay standpoint. It knew what it wanted to be and pulled it off brilliantly. JoD's meandered too much in my opinion. It wanted to incorporate a lot but I'm willing to bet the system change and production troubles made it hard to realize those ideas.


If you are a fan of the original like you say then this statement utterly confounds me. Two reasons why.

1. If you didn't like racing against the clock why did you even like NiD at all? To its very core NiD was an arcade style, time based score attack game with very few frills. Score attack was the very heart of the gameplay yet you say it wasn't your favorite part. What was then?

2. You suggest part of the reason you enjoy JoD more is because you like to cruise and explore. If so then why isn't JoD more frustrating to you? A fair chunk of the levels don't even let you explore then in their entirety if at all. The only ones that consistently do are the bird chase sequences. Sure you have unlimited time when you're a kid but considering that most all the levels are designed to be interacted with in the air, unlimited time seems pointless when you're landlocked and you're still on a timer the moment you dualize, just like NiD. At best, the freedom to explore in JoD is just as bad if not worse than NiD from my perspective. In what way do you think it's better?

I also don't like how you're generalizing and giving reviewers and consumers so little credit because frankly you're wrong. Game Informer is a poor example because they're a terrible magazine. That they're owned by Gamestop itself makes their journalistic integrity dubious at best. Anyway, companies like safe bets. That's why you see so much of the same on the market. That doesn't mean that's all consumers want or that they're incapable of appreciating something inventive. If that were the case, how do you explain the recently released LIMBO getting such critical praise from all sides? What about Shadow of the Colossus frequently being considered one of the greatest games of last generation? Don't paint in broad strokes.

Shadow of the colossus is graphically impressive as to be expected because there isn't much to it. there is plenty of exploration which could go on for hours. yet its empty, aside from the 16 colossus, there isn't much else to do, i love exploration, but it has its limits especially when your pretty sure there's nothing at the end of the tunnel. i already explained why i like the exploration in a recent post, there are only 3 of them and they aren't that long, the forest may seem long only because it has multiple paths that will lead to the finish. and to answer why isn't it more frustrating. well i have 2 answers,
1. it shouldn't be MORE frustrating, as apposed to the first one, this one has a variety, not that I'm disliking the first one, it was the first game.
2. i believe i mentioned CRUISE & Explore, the cruise would imply to the flying, if i wanna just take my time and fly, then i will. i find it relaxing to cruise in flight just to get away from some of the gory games. if i wanna be fast and rocket my way through the air to catch a bird, then i will.

lets see, why do i like NiGHTS? ya know, i get asked this a lot... and idk if ive been able to give a straight answer, ill try my best though. even my friends ask me what i see in it. and they never challenge me either XD afraid of the piping hot a$$ whoopins a paraloop will give...
hrmm. i guess it starts with the old commercial where they openly mock the PSX, "Never not anywhere, But especially not on that other system"
that probably sparked the interest cuz it was hilarious. how i felt about the game when i played it. it felt different. the surroundings were new, back then the graphics were impressive. by retro standards they still impress me. so i believe the commercial was honest in that part saying there was no other game like it, and i can agree, through all my years of gaming, i haven't played anything like it, its fluid. and im flying. IM FREAKIN FLYING MAN, THAT'S AWESOME!!! and i was sorta Sonic obsessed back then, so speed was an awesome thing for me, which of course the first NiD had a lot of. never had an analog so i used the D-Pad, OH the blisters on my thumb, i could tell u stories LMAO. the music of course i loved right away, but like i said before, Sega would always get the best out of any game they made. now aside from showing off with scores, which aside from the score-attack lovers. it was very hard to find anyone back then or even today who really gives a care about the score or rank. now a days they can and do make games very hard, where just saying you were able to beat the game would give you bragging rights. The whole atmosphere of the game was just great. i hope this clears it up a little, ive gone on to long. if you don't wanna read it fine. if u wanna call me a blasphemer. well that's up to you. but im not gonna worship the ground the first game's on, its a great and awesome lovable game that will always be in my top 10.
that's that.

[Noctourne Wonderland]

Certainly some interesting news. It's good to see NiGHTS is still on the mind of people at Sega. It's better than being essentially abandoned like some other franchises like Panzer Dragoon.

To add on some of what's been discussed about JoD, I agree with some of what DiGi and Viper said but I have my own idea of why JoD got a generally lukewarm reception. The game overall lacked focus and coherence. Yes, it tried to add new gameplay ideas, but the problem is when you try to make a game with a proverbial buffet selection of gameplay you need to design the game well enough that everything goes together well otherwise the final product will feel somewhat slapped together and people won't enjoy it. Few games seem to pull it off nowadays.

If a game has focus and development is central to one or two big ideas, the game feels more complete because there was more work put into fewer ideas. This in part is why I think the original was so well received from a gameplay standpoint. It knew what it wanted to be and pulled it off brilliantly. JoD's meandered too much in my opinion. It wanted to incorporate a lot but I'm willing to bet the system change and production troubles made it hard to realize those ideas.

Excellent point. JoD needed more of a blend from one level to the next; it was just BOOM! You're at a volcano. BOOM! You're in a castle.

I would like to see Sega experiement with flight on a truly 3D plane. It would be an interesting addition; if you beat a NiD-style level, you could unlock free flight and just have fun.

Your thoughts, everyone?

[LUCiD]

i have mixed feelings about this. while JoD was okay, from what i know of NiD, it was no where near as good as the original. i would get excited if it was more like the original. and if jackle was in it, with a smexy voice. :3

[Zero-Shift]

Excellent point. JoD needed more of a blend from one level to the next; it was just BOOM! You're at a volcano. BOOM! You're in a castle.

No, that's not what I meant at all. I meant from gameplay. For example, one mission may have you chasing the birds and the next has you destroying mines and the one after that has you river rafting. After that you're running in a mirror maze and so on. JoD's gameplay is all over the place and the transitions are stark and jarring. That's what I meant by a lack of coherence.

If any series has a valid reason to be all over the place insofar as locations, it's NiGHTS.

[Noctourne Wonderland]

No, that's not what I meant at all. I meant from gameplay. For example, one mission may have you chasing the birds and the next has you destroying mines and the one after that has you river rafting. After that you're running in a mirror maze and so on. JoD's gameplay is all over the place and the transitions are stark and jarring. That's what I meant by a lack of coherence.

If any series has a valid reason to be all over the place insofar as locations, it's NiGHTS.

I know what you meant; I was elaborating. While NiGHTS does have every reason in the world to be all over the place, each thing's supposed to be happening immediately after the last, if I understand correctly. How id they get there so fast? JoD did an interesting thing where the chase mission takes you through all of the places where the other missions occur, but there's no way of getting there. It just seems odd, like each level is a self-contained entity with a different gameplay style and location; it's kind of odd. I guess that's more dreamlike, though.

[TheBigBadWolf]

I got the issue of Games tm and had a read, interesting stuff, searched high and low for the NiGHTS cover, no joy though:(

[Noctourne Wonderland]

I got the issue of Games tm and had a read, interesting stuff, searched high and low for the NiGHTS cover, no joy though:(

Where was NiGHTS on the list?

[TheBigBadWolf]

Where was NiGHTS on the list?

They werent actually numbered, more a compliation of their favourites.

[DiGi Valentine]

I suppose that's good, in a way. I kinda like the idea of all the 100 games being legendary in their own rights, not in competition with who is more better or worse.

Is it possible for you to scan the article at all for us to read? I'll try and have a look for it myself this week but should i not find one i may need someone to back me up with a scan.

[firelord767]

As far as Games TM's website goes, it only has an article about the issue itself, which does not mention NiGHTS.
http://www.gamestm.c...ith-100-covers/
Searching NiGHTS on the site yielded an article about how NiGHTS 3 (and apparently Chaotix 2) are games that the designer wanted to make. But we knew about that one.

[Ryan Frandsen]

I'm so happy there's gonna be a third NiGHTS game! However, the first should be ported first then they should release the 3rd game. I do hope it's much better than JoD. It wasn't bad but I do wish the 2nd was as memorable as the original Saturn game. In fact....should there be new kids or should Claris & Elliot be involved in the 3rd? (not as extra skins like JoD did though)

[viperxmns]

Whether or not there will actually be a third game depends on Sega, not Iizuka.. don't read into it too much.

Otherwise there are some things about the third game that would be easier to figure than others. Obviously for one, the gameplay elements from NiD that got dropped from JoD should all return. Other things, like new dreamers yet again (every game should have new characters, I figure.. though most fans would agree it probably wouldn't be too difficult to have more interesting kids than Helen and Will), their stories, the issue of how to incorporate Dreams Dreams (it's like, how can you have a NiGHTS game without it, but you can't feel like you're just doing the same thing over and over, especially after JoD alone has like, ten versions of it).. other elements like these figure in, of course.

[firelord767]

One of the interesting things here is that while 2 dots make a line, 3 make a pattern. While there's a lot to suggest one, a NiGHTS 3 would be the one to finally establish a NiGHTS formula, which means that it'll have to be really good and inventive, and keep all of those lost goodies from the Saturn. If the next game has 2 kids who face problems with what they do, which happen to be music and sports, and they both travel to Nightopia, have a Red Ideya, dualize with NiGHTS all the time, go through 3 dreams and then a shared dream of the hometown, and then kick Wizehand's butt, then the next few NiGHTS games, if the series does pick up again, would more than likely be this repetitive. If we go farther than a NiGHTS 3, and you guys want to see previous dreamers in the games, even as supporting characters rather than the players, you better hope that happens in NiGHTS 3.

[viperxmns]

Hm.. well, Elliot and Will both played sports, and Helen and Claris both like singing or music, but Elliot and Claris's stories revolved around those things, whereas with Will and Helen it's more about their relationships with their parents. Let's just say it'd be easy enough for the kids in N3 to have interests other than sports or music. This sort of thing has been discussed at length in the Chit Chat forum; we've done a lot of thinking so Sega doesn't have to by now

Just like with other gaming franchises like Mario or Sonic, or even Street Fighter, the matter of story is a sticky issue. On the one hand, there may be a certain arc or continuity involved, but then again it's more about being able to set the gameplay in motion. I know Sonic fans in particular can make such a fuss about the 'canon' and all that. But when it comes down to it a level of simplicity and a tacit willingness to not have such a serious story makes just as much sense, depending on the type of game.

The question is what sort of story elements we would want the NiGHTS franchise to take on.

[Noctourne Wonderland]

If they do the sports/music thing again, I want the boy to like music and the girl to like sports. Shake things up and not be so stereotypical.

[EZEKiAL]

Well, to start, I don't think any of us should get our hopes up. I mean, seriously, everyone in America wants independance from foreign oil (disregarding the greedy bastards who are keeping us from it), but that doesn't mean we're going to get it. The President (hopefully) wants world peace, but we're not getting that, either. The fact that this guy wants NiGHTS 3 and Chaotix 2 is pretty much just an indication of that: he wants them. Boy howdy. The odds that Sonic Team will allow the production of a sequel to a commercially-failed and profit-sucking sequel to a game nobody ever heard about until it became a cult hit are staggeringly low.

I believe we can all come to terms with the fact that Journey of Dreams failed. Big time. It disappointed the majority of us, and I don't think anyone was like "HOLY SHENANIGANS THIS IS THE BEST GAME EVAAAAAAAARRRRRRR" about the damn thing, so if it fails for the most part among the incredibly loyal fanbase, then I doubt it did well anywhere on the demographic. Magazines (other than Nintendo Power) game it bad reviews; plus, now that everyone is obsessed with sucking the metaphorical gonads of Master Cheif and whatever goon the Grand Theft Auto series vomits out next, a purple-clad, girly-looking jester that stars in a game about family values and believing in yourself is NOT going to meet the sales quotas of money-hungry Sonic Team. While I HOPE that Sonic Team is finally pulling its head out of its arse and getting its stuff together with Sonic Colors and Sonic 4, they've got a ways to go before they can release another fan-appeasing game. Sonic Unleashed's day levels were a step in the right direction, well at least the direction that doesn't involve stepping in the poo that is Werehogs and the entirety of Sonic Travels Through Time '06. They're starting to catch on. But they would honestly have to be STUPID to release another NiGHTS game so directly after the failure of this last one. Of course, that means we'll probably get it.

As far as the game itself, if the blessed relic were ever made, I wanna see dreamers that aren't kids. Maybe one of them can be. But not both, or heck, have more than two storylines. That wouldn't be horrible. They could even take place at different times and have nothing to do with each other, except in crazily subtle ways that would make you go like "Oh wow, that's neat." I mean, seriously, kids aren't the only ones with problems around here (but honestly, some of my ideas are a bit more serious than the NiGHTS label may be willing to take on, but GET OVER IT).

Imagine a single mom. She's working two jobs and barely supports the kid, let alone herself. Aside, her mother is trying to get the child taken away on the grounds she's an unable parent. Say Mommy's afraid of courts, like her dad was sent to jail or something when she was little. The climax (her basketball game or music tryout), would be in court when she testifies calmly and clearly, thanks to the calmness that NiGHTS taught her. Her Nightmaren bosses would be representations of her mother, the judge, her own ineptitude, whatever have you. Besides, it would be neat for a character to NOT have faith in NiGHTS for once. She could be like "This is a dream. Just shove off." ON THE OTHER HAND, Reala would be constantly harassing her like a bully on the playground. During the final cutscene, she'd hear his voice say something like, "They're all watching you. Waiting for you to screw up," but then she'd think of NiGHTS and OH BOY HAPPY ENDING.

Another idea is that of a cripple (this one can be a kid). This one's pretty self explanatory, and I'm sure we've all got the same idea. Moving on.

Maybe a kid that's interested in karate? Or something less conventional that HUR HUR BALLS. I mean, the people who're playing this game aren't going to be like MAN I HOPE NIGHTS'LL HELP ME SCORE THAT GOAL TONIGHT. Have someone who's interested in writing, or running, or pole dancing pillow fighting mud wrestling gymnastics?

I want more hot, gooey, NiGHTS on Reala interaction. I want to see how the two act in more situations than "HEY NITES IM GUNNA GIT U" and "NO U AINT IM WHIMSICAL". I want FLASHBACK SCENES -gets shot- and CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT.

/endrantfornow/

[LittleBunnyFooFoo]

a new NiGHTS game woow

[Bonzi77]

I mean the majority of you would probably hate a NiGHTS game that -i- made, or DiGi made, or Level99 made, or whoever made.

I mean the majority of you would probably hate a NiGHTS game that -i- made

NiGHTS game that -i- made

What do I have to do to make this happen.

[Beautiful Nightmare]

Well, to start, I don't think any of us should get our hopes up. I mean, seriously, everyone in America wants independance from foreign oil (disregarding the greedy bastards who are keeping us from it), but that doesn't mean we're going to get it. The President (hopefully) wants world peace, but we're not getting that, either. The fact that this guy wants NiGHTS 3 and Chaotix 2 is pretty much just an indication of that: he wants them. Boy howdy. The odds that Sonic Team will allow the production of a sequel to a commercially-failed and profit-sucking sequel to a game nobody ever heard about until it became a cult hit are staggeringly low.

I believe we can all come to terms with the fact that Journey of Dreams failed. Big time. It disappointed the majority of us, and I don't think anyone was like "HOLY SHENANIGANS THIS IS THE BEST GAME EVAAAAAAAARRRRRRR" about the damn thing, so if it fails for the most part among the incredibly loyal fanbase, then I doubt it did well anywhere on the demographic. Magazines (other than Nintendo Power) game it bad reviews; plus, now that everyone is obsessed with sucking the metaphorical gonads of Master Cheif and whatever goon the Grand Theft Auto series vomits out next, a purple-clad, girly-looking jester that stars in a game about family values and believing in yourself is NOT going to meet the sales quotas of money-hungry Sonic Team. While I HOPE that Sonic Team is finally pulling its head out of its arse and getting its stuff together with Sonic Colors and Sonic 4, they've got a ways to go before they can release another fan-appeasing game. Sonic Unleashed's day levels were a step in the right direction, well at least the direction that doesn't involve stepping in the poo that is Werehogs and the entirety of Sonic Travels Through Time '06. They're starting to catch on. But they would honestly have to be STUPID to release another NiGHTS game so directly after the failure of this last one. Of course, that means we'll probably get it.

I'm sorry, but that's stupid.
I know many people who loved the game, and would like a sequel or an import of the original/first one. It didn't "fail big time" as you are putting it.
Yes, many NiGHTS-fans didn't like it, but lets be honest here... The majority of NiGHTS' original fanbase are/were blinded by nostalgia, and would dislike anything different than the original game anyway.
And lets not forget that SEGA itself is aware of NiGHTS' popularity, to the point where they had to replace the original flaggman of the Sonic-Racing game, with NiGHTS, only because the fans didn't shut-up about her not being part of it.

NiGHTS is much more popular and liked than you give it credit for, and the chances of SEGA making a sequel are much bigger than you think.

[viperxmns]

I'm sorry, but that's stupid.
I know many people who loved the game, and would like a sequel or an import of the original/first one. It didn't "fail big time" as you are putting it.
Yes, many NiGHTS-fans didn't like it, but lets be honest here... The majority of NiGHTS' original fanbase are/were blinded by nostalgia, and would dislike anything different than the original game anyway.
And lets not forget that SEGA itself is aware of NiGHTS' popularity, to the point where they had to replace the original flaggman of the Sonic-Racing game, with NiGHTS, only because the fans didn't shut-up about her not being part of it.

NiGHTS is much more popular and liked than you give it credit for, and the chances of SEGA making a sequel are much bigger than you think.

You're a bit mistaken there.. originally in ASR there was no flagman. The ONLY reason NiGHTS is in the game at all is because Sumo heard our cries and made an effort to put NiGHTS in the game somehow. Would you call that move 'awareness' by Sega of NiGHTS's popularity?

And there are many reasons NiD fans do not like JoD, but they are valid. If you know the gameplay of NiD well, you know how level plays in JoD are inherently shorter, with less emphasis on scoring like in NiD. It's not blind hate for something different. It's the knowledge that the gameplay's focus has changed, and not for the better.

And unfortunately, no one will tell you JoD was a financial success. It's not a bargain bin game now for nothing. And we're not making that fact up.

[DiGi Valentine]

I'm sorry, but that's stupid.

No, sorry. I'm agreeing with Viper here, you're incredibly mistaken with pretty much everything you just said there.

Firstly, NiGHTS as the flag-waver didn't replace any other flag-waver prior. There was no flag-waver to begin with.

Secondly, I'm one of the few people who like JoD but even i will strongly admit it's faults and that it is a failed title. It flopped, the sales were hardly anything staggering and this was partly due to a game that was handled poorly during development. If you do your homework before making statements like that you will find that a lot went wrong during JoD's development and many of the upperheads felt they were wasting time with the title.

Also, again, it's not change. When you take the formula in to what made NiGHTS into Dreams play so well and obtain such a cult status to begin with then change how that formula works you ARE changing the gameplay. It's not 'nostalgia' changing it for us, it's the game itself. This is the kind of community who have their Saturns and are still able to play the original, we have been playing it for years even. JoD comes along and plays totally different to NiD, without a single doubt.

Again, you're talking to me now, the guy who actually likes elements of JoD but i will whole heartedly agree with anybody who says this game flopped because it did and i will agree with anybody who notices the faults in this game because i notice them too.

Oh ...and then there's the whole 'i know things that others won't know' because of the position i'm in that remind me of the situation NiGHTS faces sometimes. I wouldn't be campaigning things like 'Don't Forget NiGHTS' if i thought for one second that NiGHTS was 'safe'. Why would i be wasting my money and time otherwise?

[TRiPPY]

What do I have to do to make this happen.

Believe in fate, collect 50 blue orbs and jump while pressing A.

[Bonzi77]

What what what

But you can't collect the orbs until you jump off

it

cant be done... ;_;

[Beautiful Nightmare]

The only reason why JoD didn't sell so well, is because SEGA screwed-up, not because the franchise/series is unpopular and/or disliked. Lots of people still love the franchise, and SEGA knows that, proven by the fact they listened when people screamed for NiGHTS to be in that racing game, and actually complied to it(do you think they would have complied if the number of people asking wasn't huge?).
Not to mention that many of these people became fans of NiGHTS because of JoD.
And lets not forget there is someone working for SEGA, who wants to make a sequel and it's just waiting for the green light.

Thinking the NiGHTS franchise is death only because one game didn't sell as much as expected, is just ridiculous, and very naive.

[Penelopi]

The only reason why JoD didn't sell so well, is because SEGA screwed-up, not because the franchise/series is unpopular and/or disliked. Lots of people still love the franchise, and SEGA knows that, proven by the fact they listened when people screamed for NiGHTS to be in that racing game, and actually complied to it(do you think they would have complied if the number of people asking wasn't huge?).
Not to mention that many of these people became fans of NiGHTS because of JoD.
And lets not forget there is someone working for SEGA, who wants to make a sequel and it's just waiting for the green light.

Thinking the NiGHTS franchise is death only because one game didn't sell as much as expected, is just ridiculous, and very naive.

Yes, you're correct that JoD didn't sell well due to Sega's management rather than the series itself. If it had been a more polished game and had good reviews and people saying mostly good things about it, then it probably would have sold well even without massive popularity and precedence behind it. But we're just saying that you're mistaken that Sega gives NiGHTS a lot of recognition. They don't. Sumo gave NiGHTS the appearance in that racing game--only Sumo, not Sega at all. Sumo responded to our requests, not the people who own the rights to NiGHTS. Which is never a healthy sign. And yes, there are people in Sega who want to make another NiGHTS game. I reckon there are people like that in every company, who want to make sequels for less-than-blockbuster-success games. But the thing is, those few people can't make it happen on their own. The higher-ups have to be wiling to invest in that, and clearly the higher-ups haven't had enough faith in NiGHTS to invest a whole lot in him. Even when making JoD, they were so un-confident about his chances of success that they thought he wasn't worth the time to extend production and they just tossed him out onto Christmas shelves only as well done as a half-baked cookie.

Now, this doesn't mean that NiGHTS is dead. The recent attention being given to the franchise means that there's a chance Sega might take another look at it. But it's a slim chance, and we fans have to fight for it.

[DiGi Valentine]

Thinking the NiGHTS franchise is death only because one game didn't sell as much as expected, is just ridiculous, and very naive.

Yes, Iizuka wants to make a NiGHTS 3. He's one person in SEGA who would like to continue NiGHTS. Anybody else? Well, i know the community managers and people at Sumo Digital seem to like the series as well however they're also not the people you need to be convincing. The people that give green lights, the people who count numbers and calculate costs, are the ones you want on your side if you're trying to see a series like NiGHTS get more love and it IS those people who don't feel NiGHTS is worth it.
And i've seen and heard actions first-hand that have made me get incredibly pissed off up to the point where i am here and now actually trying to do something about it. Initially, my actions were not to bring about a NiGHTS 3 but just making sure SEGA do not write off the character entirely. Iizuka's random NiGHTS 3 comment took everyone by surprise, i wouldn't have put it past his bosses to ask him what the hell he was thinking when he said it.

I ain't trying to insult you but i think perhaps you're the naive one in thinking SEGA will green light a NiGHTS 3 as easily as you think. Unless you work in and around SEGA and actually hear about the decisions being made then i suggest you take my word for it and understand it's not as easy as you're making it sound.

I'm not denying a NiGHTS 3 will get made. What i am saying is, and this is the honest truth, if it was not for the support by the fans doing what we've been doing within the last 2 to 3 years then NiGHTS would have dropped off of the face of the planet.

Look, at the end of the day you're entitled to believe in SEGA any way you choose, i'm not even sure why i'm trying to make you see things from this perspective. Maybe i don't want NiGHTS' fans built upon hopes and dreams that never become fulfilled, lord knows the community had a decade of that. I have the right as this community's admin to not trick the fans into false hopes but give them the truth as best as i can without landing people in to trouble. It's a really tough task knowing something and choosing how and where to say it, all i ask from the fans is that they trust what i tell them and support NiGHTS as best as they can. End of.

[viperxmns]

One huge frustration would be that Sega would look at JoD's sales and put the brakes on NiGHTS as a character/franchise as a result. As it stands the way they treated JoD, it's as if all the press calling NiD Sega's 'treasured franchise', and all the references to how great a game it is, it's as if all of that didn't mean anything.

One big reason NiGHTS isn't super popular like Sonic is that it was introduced on the Saturn, which as we all know, didn't exactly sell bonkers outside Japan. Thing is, for those that DID buy a Saturn, we freaking LOVE its games, and that includes NiGHTS. So while Japanese NiGHTS fans at least get treated to certain perks, we're still being kind of unfairly overlooked.

Often it seems like there's still a disconnect, like Sega management is still blind to how often NiGHTS is talked about, among gamers and press too. Did they not notice how during ASR previews, game journalists were wondering where NiGHTS was?

It'd be completely unfair and ridiculous of Sega to not give NiGHTS another chance. It's especially annoying when they seem to favor titles no one is giving much of a crap about (that old roster priority frustration with ASR), and meanwhile a worldwide port for NiD, a game with a loyal backing that's talked about quite often still goes untouched by the company.

I'd like to think we've made Iizuka and company a little more aware of the non-Japanese NiGHTS fanbase over the past year or two. That's what was stopping the port, in part. It seemed like he didn't realize how many NiGHTS fans live outside Japan.

On that subject though, is that true, that NiD is more popular in Japan? I mean the Saturn sold better in Japan, so sales might have been higher, but it's tough to reconcile because I rarely hear about any activity by the Japanese fanbase. I had gotten the sense that the more fervent NiGHTS fans live in Europe and America. As evidenced by this very website.