17 replies to this topic

[Level 99]

My name is Level 99. Maybe you've heard that I do a bit of music round here

Anyways, whether you know me or don't, I'd like to ask you to participate in an experiment. This is an experiment in which I hope we can all grow in some way, shape, or form and, as a result, I will hopefully produce a song that you've helped shape in one way or another and y'all are welcome to it in the end. It's not secret that I love NiGHTS music, and I'm trying to grow and challenge myself very much as a musician these days. My comfort zone falls in with me relying on my guitar skills, but I want to broaden my range a little bit. Paternal horn is a great song, and I've decided to do a dance remix of it. NOW here's the gameplan:

1) I'll come out with the initial WIP
2) People will listen to it and think about the song, both in comparison to the source as well as a song in it's own right
3) People will suggest changes, additions, and deletions from the song.
4) I will make some changes that I feel have been well-thought-out and are applicable
5) I will produce another WIP
6) wash-rinse-repeat steps 2 through 5 until a final version is reached

Now, I'm not going to implement every single change people throw at me, but I want you all to think real hard about music and try your very best to vocalize what you want changed. If you don't know musical terminology, do your best to describe it with words you do know, or link me to an example of what you're talking about. This is going to probably be a long experiment but I have a feeling that everyone's going to benefit from it! I'll ask DiGi and TRiPPY to host the remix once it is complete, and it will belong to this site once it is done, free to take with you wherever you go.

My goals of this are to, as I said, grow musically. This goes for both me and you, as hopefully some people will be inspired enough or learn enough from this to start working on stuff of their own. Please don't hesitate to ask me any questions about what I do or how I do it, as the challenge for me (as a non-formally educated musician) to describe what I know in details that can be understandable is also reinforcing my own knowledge and helping me learn in return. This will be a lot of fun for sure, and be something productive while Themes to Dreams 3 and Lucid Dreaming are wrapping over the next few years.

Before, I asked for your voices. Now, I ask for your brains. Delicious brains. This is not something I intend to bring over to OCReMix, this is a musical exercise that I want to perform here, away from a music-focused forum community. Breaking outside of the comfort zone in order to improve, ya know?

Anyways, enough of me blathering on an on, here's the first WIP of Paternal Dance:

http://www.mediafire.com/?5qtgmmztjoj

Ready? GO!

[Mr.Me]

i play an instrument, so i know a little music terminology
i would say maybe when the first instrument comes in after the drums, while that is crescendoing, maybe have the drums slowly decrescendo down to mezzo-forte (basicly from 00:23-00:27ish)

[Noctourne Wonderland]

It's amazing! I love that you took such a recognisable NiGHTS sing and changed the context while still keeping it familiar.

I'd shorten the intro just a tiny bit; if you made it happen in about half the time, it would be great, and the piano(?) at the beginning might be nicer if it were louder. Also, making the notes of Paternal Horn more apparent above the beat wouldn't hurt.

I can't wait to hear future WIPs!

[Mr.Me]

after relistening, maybe you could hold back the rythme a little bit? maybe instead of forte (only guessing dynamics) maybe bring it down to mezzo-forte or even mezzo-piano, so that the main part of the song comes through more, while still having the hint of the rythme still here.

and sorry if this is bad advice, i've never created music so i don't expect my advice to be too good

also, amazing job, forgot to put that in the first post xD

[WATERLiLYCAT]

It already sounds like a good song. =Scratches chin= Given my limited knowledge of music there's not likely many helpful things I can say, but I can give it a shot.

Perhaps shaving off just a couple of seconds from the intro would help the song. I love how the sound bounces between my headphones when the beginning builds up, but listening to pure 'beat' for too long might confuse the brain.
I notice at 00:14 the volume increases and the beat changes slightly. Adding more drum or a different sound when this happens might help that little bump 'Pop' and sound a little more... I suppose the word is 'Epic'.
As Nocturne says the tune is a little busy and smushed. Down-playing the consistent beat would help make the main part shine.
It also sounds like there should be a sound around 00:55-00:56, maybe you should add a pipe from a flute?
After 01:26, I think a new instrument there would be a good idea to continue the tune. Maybe void the flute-like sound for a little while and replace it with piano?

But I'm not good at this sort of thing...

[LuketheXjesse]

I wouldn't mind the percussion being turned down a bit myself. I'm also not a fan of the buzzy lead. If you made it a little less buzzy I'd be cool with it. I like the single Triangle lead though, it's nice. Being a fan of chippy Square waves, however, I'd like more of those. :D

Minor complaints aside, I have high hopes for this one. I like soft, happy stuff like this. It's reminiscent of DarkeSword's Final Flight from his Kirby remix project (THAT'S A HUGE COMPLIMENT FYI). Honestly I expected an annoying ass repetitive as crap techno song, just because the genre makes me cringe. This is pretty much a DarkeSword song instead, though, which makes me very happy. :)

I might have already asked this when I met you at Taucer's, but what synth do you use? I'm just curious.

[Level 99]

O_O you all responded FAST!

Okay, I'll take half the fade-in phased drums out, thereby shortening the intro. That one main beat is actually a soundfont I found years ago, which makes it sort-of cruise-control for the rhythm. It's one of the main things that I've been constructing the mix around, and I may decide to take it out and replace it with something completely homegrown later. There are three definitive rhythm sections: the one that's used for the intro, which is also used throughout the rest of the song for now, and two more that are panned left and right respectively, as I wanted to increase the rhythmic variation between speakers. I'm currently using two presets with different stock beats from Addictive Drums for those panned drums. I'll tone down the percussion a good bit and work on finding a more appropriate dance drum set to decrease the amount of crowding in that section. I also, apparently, need to learn how to utilize something called "side-chaining", which is used to balance out frequencies and according to a friend of mine is absolutely essential to use in this type of music.

I like the idea of variating the intensity of the drums as instruments are introduced and taken away. It would add a more fleshed-out feel, so working on beat fills and automation of the volumes is on my to-do list. Automation is the process of changing parameters on a track live as it is being played or recorded and having those parameters be automated after the fact. Example: if you enable automation on a track, and as the track is playing you bring the volume up from silence to blasting, this volume automation is recorded as a setting and can be changed after-the-fact. The program automatically performs these actions, making effects like the phase changing on the intro possible and less complicated to conjure up. At least, that's my take on it.

There are actually two pianos playing the same notes with a small left-right bias in their placement. The left piano is an electric keys set from DSK Elektrik KeyZ and the one on the right is a grand piano from DSK AkoustiK KeyZ. I might change the specific piano plugins that execute the riff, but I'm keeping the riff the same. A better sample might help push the keys to be more present, which is what I want, as the volume is high on it now but I feel like it might be battling another instrument for presence. Great thing to point out, though.

When you say the notes for paternal horn, you're referring to the lead synths, correct? Not the bass? Just checking.

I'll consider introducing the bass and arps a bit earlier as opposed to having just percussion for that long stretch after the fade-in. I don't want the song to feel like it's rushing to get to the point, though, so it's a tough call. The longer the song goes on, the longer people are hopefully dancing

I'm going to do a lot more in terms of song buildup by additional instruments over time once I get a better feeling for the direction this is heading in. Yes, that one section is intended to have some instrument doing a variation of the harmonicas from the source tune as well as a "ride" bell similar to the on-key one from the source. Also I need to include the B and C sections from the source, as well as maybe the key-change half-way through the song. The brass from the source would probably sound badass as an organ synth, but in short there will be instruments taking up that somewhat empty space and the instruments will vary throughout the song. Great observation.

This thing will probably end up being quite a long song, since this is just getting started. Luke, I gotta be honest: your response kinda blew me away. Here I am thinking you're all about guitars and there you go saying some of the most intelligent observations on this synth stuff. I added the wave lead because the buzzy was too harsh, and you're right, this deserves some softer leads, probably with slow pad supporting notes. I'll check into it. That comparison to Darkesword is VERY much a compliment, and I'm really flattered you feel that way. I never feel like music should be annoying, the point of songs like these is it's supposed to be catchy and dancy. So yeah, thanks for that! In regards to what synths I'm using, I'll have to get you the specific presets when I get home, but these are a mixture of Rapture LE, Dimension LE, Roland Groovesynth, Pentagon 1, and AAS Ultra-Analog. Four of the five of those are bundled with Sonar 8.5 Studio, and I got AAS Ultra-Analog when it was on sale for $15 a month a go. Dunno if the sale is still going on, but it is WELL WORTH the deal. I've heard great things about Z3TA+ so I might check into that, but I don't want to spend too much money on plugins I won't really use. Also, as I've probably mentioned to you a few times, that free DSK stuff is quite nice as a substitute for those who don't have lots to spend on pro and semi-pro plugins. I plan on using DSK ChoirZ to add an ethereal backing to parts of the song.

This is great, guys. It's a lot of fun and I'm already learning more just by trying to explain stuff and comment on suggestions. Thanks for the feedback and compliments, keep them coming while I start working on the next version.

[LuketheXjesse]

I actually already bought the AAS synth myself during that sale, but I haven't bothered to install it yet. *_*

Maybe I should get on that.

[Noctourne Wonderland]

When you say the notes for paternal horn, you're referring to the lead synths, correct? Not the bass? Just checking.

Sort of. I think you're on the right track, but the melody (that's the word I was looking for!) should be emphasized more. Maybe even using a different instrument/synth sound over what's there might be nice.

[viperxmns]

Umumum.. maybe add a tambourine track? lol I dunno, I don't know much terminology here so it'll be hard to articulate myself accurately.. it's really cool, look forward to hearing how it progresses.

[LuketheXjesse]

WHERE'S THE GUITAR NOT METAL ENOUGH

[Zero-Shift]

My big question is what kind of sound are you going for? Based on the title and the sound it seems like you're going for a dance track but what genre were you aiming for? For example, House, Trance, Electro, Acid, etc. The only thing I can really say right now is it lacks that bite that really grabs you and makes you want to move your body. I'd love to give more feedback, but until I know what you're aiming for, I can't.

[Level 99]

I do have a soft spot for anything with tambourine. I love tambourine.

No, Luke. This track is being made specifically NO GUITARS.

I'll try to variate the instruments that play the melody.

Zero-Shift: those are points that my friend Avaris brought up as well, and considering since I'm not well versed in the differences between dance genres or subgenres, I'm at a loss here, lol. I guess I need to do some more research into the kind of dance tracks I'm semi-modeling this style off of and tell you that. I appreciate the feedback though.

[Huruyami]

I do have a soft spot for anything with tambourine. I love tambourine.

No, Luke. This track is being made specifically NO GUITARS.

I'll try to variate the instruments that play the melody.

Zero-Shift: those are points that my friend Avaris brought up as well, and considering since I'm not well versed in the differences between dance genres or subgenres, I'm at a loss here, lol. I guess I need to do some more research into the kind of dance tracks I'm semi-modeling this style off of and tell you that. I appreciate the feedback though.

Don't feel bad. I listen to dance/techno all day and the 50 billion subgenres mesh together alot, so its just a few key differences. Now, I actually need to listen to this track xD

[Zero-Shift]

Zero-Shift: those are points that my friend Avaris brought up as well, and considering since I'm not well versed in the differences between dance genres or subgenres, I'm at a loss here, lol. I guess I need to do some more research into the kind of dance tracks I'm semi-modeling this style off of and tell you that. I appreciate the feedback though.

If you link me to a song with the sound you're going for that would help tremendously.

[Ten]

Late, late, late, late. Blah, giving my input anyway.

I'm sitting here listening for maybe the...fifth time to get a hang on what all's here, and the only things throwing me (and I'm not sure if this's been addressed already) are the buzzy sounds. And the clarinet-y synth (it sounds like the clarinet on an organ, anyway) sounds a little too strong without much backing it. I like it, it's just kinda... too "A:OIJEIAMHERE". But that might just be how it transitions between notes. The buzzy would be fine if it didn't seem as jarring, musically, though. Maybe tone that down a tad and see how it works.

I'll admit, I can't quite pick up on the melody as well as I might like to. I hear it, and I know it's this remix's melody, but... I guess it took me a sec to identify it as "Paternal Horn". It sounds good, don't get me wrong, but that fact makes it a little odd to listen to, I guess. I've been listening to both songs side by side, though, which might not be the best idea. I know this is a dance mix and that melodies change a bit in them, so the point may well be invalid. XD

[Level 99]

Consider this on hiatus for a little while. Will resume once I remember who I am, what I'm doing, and how to maek remicks.

[LuketheXjesse]

Consider this on hiatus for a little while. Will resume once I remember who I am, what I'm doing, and how to maek remicks.

I say you should be a cool dude like me and make the EPIC transition into a certain genre that starts with an M...you know you want it!

On a serious note, I assume you're trying to find your place musically, which is cool. I've considered transitioning into electro-metal of sorts, using my newfound synthesis knowledge. Maybe you'll end up wanting to make Jazz or Rap remixes? Who knows. I can definitely see where you're going with this. Or maybe you're just rethinking your life in general. OR maybe I'm making too many assumptions here. Whatever. Hope it all comes together well, in any case.

Here is my biggest smile yet!

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