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Member Since 03 Jul 2008
Offline Last Active Nov 26 2010 03:12 AM

In Topic: NiGHTS 3?

03 September 2010 - 07:46 AM

Certainly some interesting news. It's good to see NiGHTS is still on the mind of people at Sega. It's better than being essentially abandoned like some other franchises like Panzer Dragoon.

To add on some of what's been discussed about JoD, I agree with some of what DiGi and Viper said but I have my own idea of why JoD got a generally lukewarm reception. The game overall lacked focus and coherence. Yes, it tried to add new gameplay ideas, but the problem is when you try to make a game with a proverbial buffet selection of gameplay you need to design the game well enough that everything goes together well otherwise the final product will feel somewhat slapped together and people won't enjoy it. Few games seem to pull it off nowadays.

If a game has focus and development is central to one or two big ideas, the game feels more complete because there was more work put into fewer ideas. This in part is why I think the original was so well received from a gameplay standpoint. It knew what it wanted to be and pulled it off brilliantly. JoD's meandered too much in my opinion. It wanted to incorporate a lot but I'm willing to bet the system change and production troubles made it hard to realize those ideas.

If you are a fan of the original like you say then this statement utterly confounds me. Two reasons why.

1. If you didn't like racing against the clock why did you even like NiD at all? To its very core NiD was an arcade style, time based score attack game with very few frills. Score attack was the very heart of the gameplay yet you say it wasn't your favorite part. What was then?

2. You suggest part of the reason you enjoy JoD more is because you like to cruise and explore. If so then why isn't JoD more frustrating to you? A fair chunk of the levels don't even let you explore then in their entirety if at all. The only ones that consistently do are the bird chase sequences. Sure you have unlimited time when you're a kid but considering that most all the levels are designed to be interacted with in the air, unlimited time seems pointless when you're landlocked and you're still on a timer the moment you dualize, just like NiD. At best, the freedom to explore in JoD is just as bad if not worse than NiD from my perspective. In what way do you think it's better?

I also don't like how you're generalizing and giving reviewers and consumers so little credit because frankly you're wrong. Game Informer is a poor example because they're a terrible magazine. That they're owned by Gamestop itself makes their journalistic integrity dubious at best. Anyway, companies like safe bets. That's why you see so much of the same on the market. That doesn't mean that's all consumers want or that they're incapable of appreciating something inventive. If that were the case, how do you explain the recently released LIMBO getting such critical praise from all sides? What about Shadow of the Colossus frequently being considered one of the greatest games of last generation? Don't paint in broad strokes.

Shadow of the colossus is graphically impressive as to be expected because there isn't much to it. there is plenty of exploration which could go on for hours. yet its empty, aside from the 16 colossus, there isn't much else to do, i love exploration, but it has its limits especially when your pretty sure there's nothing at the end of the tunnel. i already explained why i like the exploration in a recent post, there are only 3 of them and they aren't that long, the forest may seem long only because it has multiple paths that will lead to the finish. and to answer why isn't it more frustrating. well i have 2 answers,
1. it shouldn't be MORE frustrating, as apposed to the first one, this one has a variety, not that I'm disliking the first one, it was the first game.
2. i believe i mentioned CRUISE & Explore, the cruise would imply to the flying, if i wanna just take my time and fly, then i will. i find it relaxing to cruise in flight just to get away from some of the gory games. if i wanna be fast and rocket my way through the air to catch a bird, then i will.

lets see, why do i like NiGHTS? ya know, i get asked this a lot... and idk if ive been able to give a straight answer, ill try my best though. even my friends ask me what i see in it. and they never challenge me either XD afraid of the piping hot a$$ whoopins a paraloop will give...
hrmm. i guess it starts with the old commercial where they openly mock the PSX, "Never not anywhere, But especially not on that other system"
that probably sparked the interest cuz it was hilarious. how i felt about the game when i played it. it felt different. the surroundings were new, back then the graphics were impressive. by retro standards they still impress me. so i believe the commercial was honest in that part saying there was no other game like it, and i can agree, through all my years of gaming, i haven't played anything like it, its fluid. and im flying. IM FREAKIN FLYING MAN, THAT'S AWESOME!!! and i was sorta Sonic obsessed back then, so speed was an awesome thing for me, which of course the first NiD had a lot of. never had an analog so i used the D-Pad, OH the blisters on my thumb, i could tell u stories LMAO. the music of course i loved right away, but like i said before, Sega would always get the best out of any game they made. now aside from showing off with scores, which aside from the score-attack lovers. it was very hard to find anyone back then or even today who really gives a care about the score or rank. now a days they can and do make games very hard, where just saying you were able to beat the game would give you bragging rights. The whole atmosphere of the game was just great. i hope this clears it up a little, ive gone on to long. if you don't wanna read it fine. if u wanna call me a blasphemer. well that's up to you. but im not gonna worship the ground the first game's on, its a great and awesome lovable game that will always be in my top 10.
that's that.

In Topic: NiGHTS 3?

02 September 2010 - 11:28 PM

Not head to head in the same sense as in NiD though; there, you fight him directly, with drill dashes and Paraloops. In JoD it's less direct because you only can toss the Mare Balloons at each other (adding the option to still be able to hit each other manually would be cool). I think the balloon toss can stay as a 2P match option, but nothing beats fighting each other with no barriers in between. Again, puzzle elements or other elements can be added to mix it up, but NiGHTS and Reala should be able to attack each other directly.

that may still be possible, well 1 sided really, Reala will go for the balls, but who knows. maybe if ur quick enough you can paraloop him. i never got him but i keep trying XD

In Topic: NiGHTS 3?

02 September 2010 - 06:27 PM

To wit, there are many elements that JoD has that can make it feel more 'complete' than NiD; things like being able to exit or restart a level from the pause menu (something the PS2 NiD has to a lesser extent, I believe), being able to fight Nightmaren as a standalone mission, extra 2P modes, getting bonus points for doing tricks through rings is cool, the concept of a lot of the new missions was sound (just needs a stronger scoring element a lot of the time, something that keeps you in the mission longer), where NiGHTS was concerned, and the idea to infuse more story bits is admirable (though a different approach may have been preferable.. still like the idea of Storybook style cut scenes). And a lot of the new graphic designs are prettier (still like those calligraphic score emblems). These sorts of things should certainly carry over to the next game.

In turn, a lot of what is wrong with JoD stems from the removal of elements from NiD, something a sequel should never do. A sequel should build up gameplay, not take away things that made the original game fun. The fact that NiGHTS can't air brake is weird; there's no stunt ribbon, no true head to head with Reala, the kids being unable to explore the levels and do their triple jumps like before.. we've gone over these things so many times but it always bears repeating, since all these things are such easy answers in regard to what needs to be done to make the third game more satisfying.

Since Iizuka and Co. have feedback now, maybe they can realize they didn't need to change so much of the gameplay for JoD. They don't need to fear restoring the Ideya Capture missions from NiD, since in this case we kinda want more of the same. Instead, they should play around with adding new twists to the classic style play. Maybe have missions where the Captures require something different to overload them. Maybe you have to bust different things, in different ways. Something new with the rings. Not every level even needs to play the exact same way. There's sooo much that can be toyed around with the basic structure of NiGHTS gameplay that has yet to be addressed.

yeah, they can be very creative. i wouldnt want every level to be a repeat, it was nice for the first game but that was so long ago, we can do better now. i have to keep this short.

oh btw what do u mean no true head to head with Reala? i thought the final battle you got with him was pretty head to head.

In Topic: NiGHTS 3?

02 September 2010 - 12:32 PM

Nope, sorry. That's a bit farfetched now.

NiGHTS into Dreams felt VERY different in terms of how the concept of time was against you in the game. JoD altered it to a point that it wasn't even the same threat anymore. That's where the game fell off and fans couldn't get to grips with how JoD played. It was different.

The thing with NiD was it taught you how to squeeze fun into every available second that you were dualized with NiGHTS. The game was crafted with the point of collecting the Ideya's in the level and if you wanted to further challenge yourself you would relap the stage and chase time down to the very last second to get those scores. JoD butchered that concept by removing the Ideya goal and have you chasing birds instead. You were no longer trying to chase down every last available second you had when dualized, you were now responsible to chase after a solid object moving around the level. And once you had you could no longer relap.

The flow of the game play was MAJORLY changed. And when the flow of gameplay is changed hugely like that it then changes the overall feel of the game itself.

And i highly doubt you could count 32 levels over 6 when everything outside the flight levels was gimmicks and unneeded fluff that derailed the whole point of playing NiGHTS in the first place.

I really don't think you should be coming in here and asking this community what we wanted from a NiGHTS game when you yourself have clearly overlooked one of the main fundamentals that structured the experience of NiGHTS in the first place.

i can see and understand your views. and i haven't overlooked NiGHTS race against the clock element. I admit its not one of my favorite parts of the game. I do like a challenge every now and again, and often do test my skills against that bloody thing, but i also like to cruise and explore.
NiD is pretty much forcing you to be on your toes the entire time, its hard to savor moments for a lot of ppl when your in a hurry, if in the middle of flight you lose time, you fall out of NiGHTS, lose whatever score you had planned to get, now your on foot again, which at some times you would think would be one good way to explore but no, time is still on your behind, you have just enough time needed to probably collect a bit of what you dropped and find your way back to NiGHTS before those... whatever they're called, time clock ghosts come and get you. id like to savor moments, but being rushed is hardly helpful, if you loved that way of experience, not saying it was horrible, then power to ya.

the levels in JoD for most levels gave you more free time, to do whatever, you didn't have to go for NiGHTS right away, but u would eventually. the essence of Time is still there, just far more merciful which is not a bad thing. the other levels. idk about you or other people, but i personally love the forest exploration level as Helen, the music and the experience of being in the woods like that has a feeling to it that i haven't felt in a game sense the Sega Genesis days. best example would be Streets of Rage 2, which is probably even more odd XD, Octapaw.. sure ill let you have that one... but there were other interesting levels. taking a step away from the race against time and being more innovative.

if you wanted some levels where your have that experience of having your time be your worst enemy, that's not to much to ask.
but just asking for the same thing is like the ppl who want a remake of FF7, its prettier and looks brand new and like nothing ever seen.
but all in all. ITS THE SAME THING. and thats what the vast majority of gamers, Don't want to see in a sequel. I can definitely see your point. and
maybe should a 3rd game be considered. perhaps they'll fix their mistakes and add some of that old element back. and also keep some of the new.
its a good combo. but don't hate change.

In Topic: Who are you in your dreams?

02 September 2010 - 11:02 AM

im usually myself yet very embarrassing cuz im hanging with my hero's and then i say something stupid and get all awkward