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Another Selph Topic
#1
Guest_Ekairi_*
Posted 06 September 2007 - 05:54 PM
I'm expecting some rebuttals in this topic but I don't want to see this topic closed before it should be.
Meaning I want you guys to chose your words wisely, support your opinion without it attacking someone else.
Ok here is the deal...
I often see that Selph is referred to as another boss monster of some sort.
However, there is some decently clear evendence that Selph is not another boss monster but the "Other" NiGHTS in the last boss fight.
How do I think this is so?
If you look at the coding for the game there is a list that lists all sprite beings that needs an AI like program during boss battle. It is evendent that the "Other" NiGHTS would need this programing too which, if you look at the listing, clearly doesn't state another "NiGHTS" or anyother thing other than Selph. Meaning he, Selph, should be the other NiGHTS in the battle.
(Old pic, the cd drive in this computer is not working so I had to get the pic from someone else otherwise I would have taken the pic myself.)
Ok now I'm waiting to see your views on what you think.
Only support your answer and try not to put other's answers down.
Begin now!
#2
Posted 06 September 2007 - 07:03 PM
This evidence, and a bit of other trivia, is enough to convince me personally that the copy of NiGHTS helping you in the final boss is Selph. However, that still doesn't answer the question of where that Gorramn song comes in.
#3
Posted 06 September 2007 - 07:07 PM
Its still there. Its just dead because everyone kicked the crap out of the Selph theories.
#4
Guest_Ekairi_*
Posted 06 September 2007 - 07:26 PM
http://www.nightsintodreams.com/forum//ind...ic=167&st=0
Its still there. Its just dead because everyone kicked the crap out of the Selph theories.
Not exactly what I was looking for... ^^;
I was looking more for a topic that was a little less one sided. (As to that topic overly states him as being a boss with no true evendence. Sorry I don't mean this as an attack.)
#5
Posted 06 September 2007 - 07:34 PM
#6
Posted 06 September 2007 - 08:01 PM
... glad we kinda debunked that :3.
#7
Guest_Ekairi_*
Posted 06 September 2007 - 08:19 PM
(This isn't a reply to your last post in this thread Purg, I just figured I wasn't clear enough for others to post what I was looking for.)
Basically I noticed a lot of fans stated Selph as a boss, that the "Know Thyself" song as Selph's Theme, and other similar assumptions without valuable or creditable evendence to support those claims.
Just statements are not enough to say that all those statements are true, which with they way people talk about it they support those statements as true and again I state they still didn't have valuable or creditable evendence to support it.
Basicaly I am challenging someone to prove that "Selph" is a boss, that the song is indeed his theme, and that other similar assumptions are correct. Like I said before, just statements are not proof enough.
Example of something that isn't proof:
Selph is a boss because I know he was cut out of the game and that song is so much like his name it means that it is his theme.
Example of something that is what I will take as proof:
Selph is clearly a boss taken out of the game because if you look at the picture you posted above it relates to all monster bosses, there for it is still very possible that his is a boss. The song "Know Thyself" was clearly stated by the Sega team as being a boss battle, there for it is very possible that it was Selph's theme. (And link to reference and/or picture of some creditable sort.)
I want to see opinions from both sides of the story.
Both that believe Selph is a boss and those who believe that Selph is something other than a boss, but I also want to know why you think this is.
#8
Posted 07 September 2007 - 12:03 AM
If those aren't bosses then I don't know what to believe.
#9
Posted 07 September 2007 - 12:22 AM
But eveyrone started going on about how there is music for him and everything. Thing is...the KnowThyself theme may not be boss music. It may have been the song they were going to use for Twin Seeds or Wizeman but then changed it. We don't really know.
Wouldn't it be nice if we could just...I don't know, Ask Sega! Would be great if someone there could tell us.
#10
Guest_Ekairi_*
Posted 07 September 2007 - 12:25 AM
This is very difficult indeed. I'm going to say Selph was a boss though. He or she is in a list of bosses but the one thing I don't understand is what is up with ELIOT CITY and SPIRAL CLARI? I don't get it. Are they boss codes?
If those aren't bosses then I don't know what to believe.
List of places I think, I would have to look at them again. (And the names of the characters related to them.)
Like I said before the CD drive isn't working at the moment.
Edit:
Actually In that old Topic I was one of the few people to suggest that it wasn't a boss. I belived it to be the code used to control the other NiGHTS character while you fought Wizeman.
But eveyrone started going on about how there is music for him and everything. Thing is...the KnowThyself theme may not be boss music. It may have been the song they were going to use for Twin Seeds or Wizeman but then changed it. We don't really know.
Wouldn't it be nice if we could just...I don't know, Ask Sega! Would be great if someone there could tell us.
Nice this is more like what I'm looking for.
Now to see if I can find someone from the other side of this situation that can be this descriptive.
#11
Posted 07 September 2007 - 02:52 AM
It's like we're chasing a ghost. We're trying to figure out something that we can't see or touch and we're not even sure if it was ever there to begin with.
#12
Guest_submas13_*
Posted 07 September 2007 - 04:45 AM
Well, technically were chasing a dream spirit.....If you're looking for proof on Selph, you're not going to get very far. We've got no word from Sega, Naka-san has said nothing about it... all we have are a few lines of code and a song.
It's like we're chasing a ghost. We're trying to figure out something that we can't see or touch and we're not even sure if it was ever there to begin with.
But really, maybe Sega is saying nothing about it because information on Selph could have something to do with JoD. Couldn't it be possible that Sega is going to use the discarded character for a boss or ally to NiGHTS?
#13
Posted 07 September 2007 - 04:57 AM
Okay, it's like we're chasing a UFO. Or Bigfoot. Or any number of things with a very small amount of circumspect evidence to prove that they even exist. Get the picture?Well, technically were chasing a dream spirit.....
Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm still relatively new to this fandom), but hasn't this been going on for 11 years now? That's a silence that began before anyone at Sega had even conceived of how JoD would go.But really, maybe Sega is saying nothing about it because information on Selph could have something to do with JoD. Couldn't it be possible that Sega is going to use the discarded character for a boss or ally to NiGHTS?
No, I don't think this has anything to do with JoD. At least, not initially.
#14
Posted 07 September 2007 - 05:03 AM
Yeah...but woudn't it be funny if it was something so unimportant that Sega donesn't even remember. LolIf you're looking for proof on Selph, you're not going to get very far. We've got no word from Sega, Naka-san has said nothing about it... all we have are a few lines of code and a song.
It's like we're chasing a ghost. We're trying to figure out something that we can't see or touch and we're not even sure if it was ever there to begin with.
"What are you talking about. How can you expect us to remember a line of codeing we made 11 years ago. You are crazy! Why are you even hacking our games?!"
I still belive it has somthing to do with Wizeman. I could just be the point after you beat twin Seeds and the kids fuse with NiGHTS. Either the scene of them getting into the ideya palace, or the after scene when they both turn into NiGHTS and they see each other looking like...themself! Lord only knows.
#15
Guest_submas13_*
Posted 07 September 2007 - 05:03 AM
Well, I know it isn't intentional.Okay, it's like we're chasing a UFO. Or Bigfoot. Or any number of things with a very small amount of circumspect evidence to prove that they even exist. Get the picture?
Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm still relatively new to this fandom), but hasn't this been going on for 11 years now? That's a silence that began before anyone at Sega had even conceived of how JoD would go.
No, I don't think this has anything to do with JoD. At least, not initially.
Is Sega not saying anything about Selph now, or has this been going on for years? (Sorry, I'm not exactly in the loop.)
But anyway, maybe this could be Selph's revival.
#16
Posted 07 September 2007 - 05:09 AM
Doubt it. We don't even know if he was a character. It may just be a special code that does something. We have no idea.Well, I know it isn't intentional.
Is Sega not saying anything about Selph now, or has this been going on for years? (Sorry, I'm not exactly in the loop.)
But anyway, maybe this could be Selph's revival.
Like I said above, it may be something so insignificant that they don't even remember.
#17
Posted 07 September 2007 - 05:11 AM
Group 1: Selph is a deleted boss! It has its own music! we must find it!
Group 2: I think Selph is just the other NiGHTS in the Wizeman Battle.
#18
Guest_submas13_*
Posted 07 September 2007 - 05:14 AM
You are forgeting:Were ALWAYS split in two!
Group 1: Selph is a deleted boss! It has its own music! we must find it!
Group 2: I think Selph is just the other NiGHTS in the Wizeman Battle.
Group 3: Who cares?
#19
Posted 07 September 2007 - 05:17 AM
#20
Guest_submas13_*
Posted 07 September 2007 - 05:21 AM
I know this is prolly pretty unlikely, but are there images of Selph? I'll accept fanart too!Or mabye its just the credits. *Shot for ruining everyone's hope of a kick ass boss.*
#21
Posted 07 September 2007 - 05:25 AM
Fanart may be all you're getting, amigo.I know this is prolly pretty unlikely, but are there images of Selph? I'll accept fanart too!
Like I said, I may be relatively new here, but I know for a fact that there are no pictures.
#22
Posted 07 September 2007 - 05:25 AM
If there were images of Selph then we wouldn't be having this discussion now would we?! But if you look on dev you will find peoples ideas of what selph may have looked like. It seems the site will soon have a fan art section dedicated to him as well...if it ever gets put up.I know this is prolly pretty unlikely, but are there images of Selph? I'll accept fanart too!
#23
Guest_submas13_*
Posted 07 September 2007 - 05:27 AM
Thats what I really meant. I kinda want to see what people think he/she looks like.If there were images of Selph then we wouldn't be having this discussion now would we?! But if you look on dev you will find peoples ideas of what selph may have looked like. It seems the site will soon have a fan art section dedicated to him as well...if it ever gets put up.
#24
Posted 07 September 2007 - 10:58 AM
The only proof we have that Selph is, indeed, a boss is that it happens to be in the boss files.
As you know, this DOESN'T exactly mean it's a boss. All it means is that it has something to do with the boss battle, not the boss itself. Now, I'm not entirely a master at hacking Saturn games, but, still, I think every reason in this case, until we find the truth, is a legitimate reason.
I don't, however, see that much of a reason why Selph would still be in the game, unless it is.:
A.) There's a hidden level as well.
B.) It's the "other NiGHTS" battle data.
I'm sticking with 'B.)' here. If Selph really was another boss, I just think there'd probably be a deleted or hidden level to go along with him.
I rest mah case.
SUSPi; Attorney at lol.
Edit: I think 'Elliot City' and 'Spiral Claris' are exactly what they are.: Their flying models for Twin Seeds.
#25
Posted 07 September 2007 - 03:51 PM
1. Level Data(Eliot's City and Spiral Claris may be their separate Twin Seeds levels)
2. Possibly Model Data (It may be that EC and SC are the flying models, like SUSPi said)
3. Boss Data
Seeing how the 'SELPH' data is in with the Boss Data, it's possible that he may be a boss. My theory is this that, like Wizeman, you are required to fight Selph on both sides of the story(Eliot's and Claris'). You were meant to fight him before Wizeman, but after Jackle/Reala. Makes sense if you ask me. That, and is says, right here on the site, that 'Know Thyself!' is the deleted Selph boss theme. I doubt TRiPPY would put up something like that if she had no proof. [/semirant]
EDiT: What program would I use to look at the NiGHTS disc data? I want to check this out in more depth..
#26
Posted 07 September 2007 - 08:35 PM
#27
Guest_Ekairi_*
Posted 07 September 2007 - 08:38 PM
... That, and is says, right here on the site, that 'Know Thyself!' is the deleted Selph boss theme. I doubt TRiPPY would put up something like that if she had no proof. ...
Err...
Some times when people repeat stuff over and over again others tend to believe it.
The only reason I believe that she put it up as that is because of the fact that Sega did say the song was suppose to be a Boss battle song however, no one said it was "Selph" boss theme other than TRiPPY possibly a whole bunch of other fans.
What I'm saying there was no proof that it was the theme because Sega never said that many just assumed it was because of similar sounds in names or the possible chance of mistranslation.
(Realize that TRiPPY is just as human as you and me, people make mistakes and I believe that as a mistake.)
I will stand by this until some one can find proof that Sega did say the theme was a boss battle song for Selph.
(I do not at all mean this as an attack, I am just stating a fact. I respect your opinion on the Selph case however, I would like to remind you that not everyone is fool proof.)
#28
Guest_submas13_*
Posted 10 September 2007 - 08:03 AM
*Imagines immense flame wars, with intense casualties on all sides.*
#29
Posted 10 September 2007 - 10:51 AM
I do, honestly, think 'Know Thyself' was the deleted boss theme for the battle with Wizeman, and the battle with Wizeman just used D'Force Masters instead. Honestly, 'Know Thyself' could have been the theme for Claris's Fight, and 'D'Force Masters' could've been for Elliot's.
Although, there is the extra sound '???' in the game that might have something to do with 'Know Thyself', and, therefore, Selph as a boss, so we really don't know for sure...
#30
Posted 10 September 2007 - 12:28 PM
Err...
Some times when people repeat stuff over and over again others tend to believe it.
The only reason I believe that she put it up as that is because of the fact that Sega did say the song was suppose to be a Boss battle song however, no one said it was "Selph" boss theme other than TRiPPY possibly a whole bunch of other fans.
What I'm saying there was no proof that it was the theme because Sega never said that many just assumed it was because of similar sounds in names or the possible chance of mistranslation.
(Realize that TRiPPY is just as human as you and me, people make mistakes and I believe that as a mistake.)
I will stand by this until some one can find proof that Sega did say the theme was a boss battle song for Selph.
(I do not at all mean this as an attack, I am just stating a fact. I respect your opinion on the Selph case however, I would like to remind you that not everyone is fool proof.)
The proof is right here. http://translate.google.com/translate?u=ht...Flanguage_tools
On the original NiGHTS site developer diaries. Scroll down the left and click on Know Thyself! . "For game not yet appearance boss".
On note, someone really needs to save that whole website, in case it goes down after 11 years. Theres a wealth of untapped info there.
#31
Posted 10 September 2007 - 03:31 PM
#32
Guest_Ekairi_*
Posted 10 September 2007 - 06:32 PM
The proof is right here. http://translate.google.com/translate?u=ht...Flanguage_tools
On the original NiGHTS site developer diaries. Scroll down the left and click on Know Thyself! . "For game not yet appearance boss".
On note, someone really needs to save that whole website, in case it goes down after 11 years. Theres a wealth of untapped info there.
Well then. o_o I guess that solves most of this discussion..Nice find, Jof. Why didn't we think about that? XD Anyways, like I asked before: What program would I use to examine the disc's data? =3
Actualy no...
Not one place did I see it say.
"This is Selph boss theme."
It did however say:
"For game not yet appearance boss"
That doesn't prove anything other than that was another boss battle in plan that never made it in the game.
If it doesn't strickly say "Selph's Theme" than its not proof enough to say it is the theme at all for a non existence boss that everyone made up in their mind. (I'm strickly going after the name in thought...)
As I said before I stick by my reason until someone proves its the "Selph" boss theme.
(Other than that good find jof.)
Edit:
Just in case I wasn't clear before...
What I mean is that song still has no connection to "Selph"
Everyone continuously talks about Selph as a boss when there is no proof that this is even a boss. (Only as a boss in speculation.)
Just because that list has "Selph" in it does not necessarily mean that he is a boss.
As I said before, it can very well be a list for the scripting and programing of the computer players in boss battle.
Oh and I forgot to add Hex Editer is a good program for looking at these kinds of stuff.
(I didn't mean any of this as an attack, I was only trying to prove my point that there isn't proof enough of a boss named "Selph.)
#33
Posted 10 September 2007 - 07:29 PM
There were probably 100s of Boss Ideas that were starting to get developed, came up, maybe even WERE going to be in the game, but got scrapped later. Unless I see something that says 'Know Thyself is the theme song for the forgotten boss Selph', I'm honestly not going to say 'THAT'S Selph's theme.'.
The other thing I need to ask is.: If Selph WAS indeed THE BOSS, wouldn't there be a deleted level to go along with it? If it turns out to be a boss, It was developed so much to this point... I'd honestly think there would be one...
It's like thinking a person with a New York accent is automatically from New York...
As I said before, it can very well be a list for the scripting and programing of the computer players in boss battle.
I'm thinking the music might have been for a "Do all the bosses in a row." mode. Since 'boss' is used generally in this case, it could be anything involving a boss battle... anything from Selph actually being a boss to a boss mode... we'd really have to ask SEGA about it...
... again, Just because Selph's data was found in the boss data folder, doesn't mean he is a boss. The removed boss could've been removed a while back before it even had data together, but the music was already made.
#34
Posted 10 September 2007 - 08:24 PM
#35
Guest_submas13_*
Posted 10 September 2007 - 11:28 PM
Site translation bad translation gives. confused boggled mind, rest given to mind. Grammer brain cells kills.
#36
Posted 10 September 2007 - 11:37 PM
Actualy no...
Not one place did I see it say.
"This is Selph boss theme."
...
You're completely right. Sorry, I misunderstood your post : P
I think people just took the "Selph" boss data thing and the un-bossed music and put 2 and 2 together. Other than that, there's no proof out there. We need to kidnap some SEGA folks.
#37
Guest_Ekairi_*
Posted 10 September 2007 - 11:42 PM
Ugh.
Site translation bad translation gives. confused boggled mind, rest given to mind. Grammer brain cells kills.
Yea if you didn't notice I tend to read stuff that has a lot of bad grammar in it. (Doesn't help if the schools don't know correct grammar themselfs.)
Either way it appears that someone used a translator to translate that one site.
For example "kurarisu" should actually be "Claris"...
#38
Guest_submas13_*
Posted 10 September 2007 - 11:46 PM
After the JoD site is translated, we should get the translating peoples to work on the old site. Maybe we can set up a mirror on the site.Yea if you didn't notice I tend to read stuff that has a lot of bad grammar in it. (Doesn't help if the schools don't know correct grammar themselfs.)
Either way it appears that someone used a translator to translate that one site.
For example "kurarisu" should actually be "Claris"...
#39
Posted 10 September 2007 - 11:54 PM
I think people just took the "Selph" boss data thing and the un-bossed music and put 2 and 2 together. Other than that, there's no proof out there. We need to kidnap some SEGA folks.
I'm on it Jof >3.
As for Selph... hmm... I honestly don't think it's "OMG ZOMG HE IS NOT A BOSS", but I don't throw away the theory it's just the 2nd NiGHTS. Otherwise, yah, I think it's mostly 2-and-2 together.
Either way, trying to paraloop the 2nd NiGHTS is always fun.
#40
Guest_submas13_*
Posted 10 September 2007 - 11:58 PM
Now thats just evil!Either way, trying to paraloop the 2nd NiGHTS is always fun.
.......
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