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Helen and William


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#1
Louis

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So, now we know the names of the two kids, what they look like and it's all had time to sink in, am I the only one who really dislikes the designs?

Part of the beauty of the character design in NiGHTS was the simplicity, all the new things we've seen so far have just been far too busy.

William also looks like a younger version of a guy I know of the same name, William Taylor, which is funny I suppose.

I'm digging the violin though, but still Helen is too frilly and looks too much like a super-deformed Elliot from Scrubs.

The maren also look a little big to me. Ideya palace is nice though.

Back on topic, I was really hoping for some nice designs for this kids this time around. Elliot and Claris, while the idea behind them was good, were both killed in the facial department. Claris looked a little deformed, while Elliot a tad slow. This time round the faces seem too young. How exactly does either look 12 years old?

#2
salem norongachi

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The designs kinda remind me of FF 12, they try and make game chars too human these days but then again they cant exactly have the graphics and such the same as they were in the original, most games these days are judged by how they look more than how they play or what storyline they have.

I'm not a hard core fan mind you but thats my two cents.

#3
NNR07

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I'm kinda mixed about the new design <.< >.>''! I mean, like I said, I like the name 'William' more than 'Kevin' :3. BUT, I don't really like William's design all that much (although, I'm fine with Helen's :3). I think it might end up, after I've actually played the game for a long time, I'll like William and Helen JUST like I do Claris and Elliot.:


Claris is my favorite, with Elliot way off there << >>.


I agree, they look way too young for 12-year olds. Most 12/13 year olds start looking more like teenagers, not 8-year olds :/.

Speaking of which, I am kinda impressed and upset about the Ideya Palace changes. Upset because I liked the old design and they did/might've gotten rid of it, and impressed because I think the new design is AWESOME 8D!

#4
TRiPPY

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When i first heard about the 2 new kids i was expecting to like William more, and now it's the other way around. But yeah. CLONES. Everyone in Bellbridge city must be blonde *snort*

I was told to not to expect to like the kid designs, and that person was probably right, i still prefer Claris and Elliot, you can actualy tell them apart.


Maybe William has a shining personality :/

#5
infractus

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What's troubling about William's design is that he almost looks exactly like Helen with different clothes and slightly different hair, not to mention he looks more like a toddler (are the two dreamers supposed to be within the same age?). He's not a very boyish looking boy.. looks a bit more feminine, to that I have no problem. It might make for an interesting storyline.

These characters look a bit drab, and the translation isn't very impressive. Girl whose studying music and is starting to resent her mother. It feels a bit weak; it's too broad a subject... and, also - it feels somewhat like a hasty generalization that all girls(and boys?) going through puberty will resent their parents.

#6
Louis

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I just thought, the first one was about bravery, so Red ideya was the one the kids had. This one is about family acceptance, so does that mean they'll have a different colour?

#7
TRiPPY

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Oh wait till you get the story on Kevin XD

FATHER ISSUES DUN DUN DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUN.

It makes me wonder if he's still gonna be fooled by Wizey.

This one is about family acceptance, so does that mean they'll have a different colour?


To be honest i dont think they've thought that hard. They'll probably miss out the Ideya alltogether.

#8
Louis

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Oh god, he looks like a young Prince William.

#9
animejosse

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I kinda like Helen's design, even if she looks at most eleven years old.

William looks five. I think it's the shorts since they look so big. Aside from looking so young, nothing really stands out about him.

Oh god, he looks lie a young Prince William.


...dear god, that's just scary D:

#10
Jof

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So William has father issues.. and Helen has mother issues ?
Both blonde, both look alike.

SEPERATED AT BIRTH : O

I predict a family reunion at the end :P
On the subject of designs, I can't say much for William. Helen looks alright, the style of clothing she wears is nice.

Im now 99% convinced this is a re-make. Just made more realistic, and with various little differences. The two games are too similar already for it not to be.

William and his football, Elliot and his basketball.
Helen and her performing and her violin, Claris and her performing and her singing.

Look at Helen's screens and her attire. Look at it compared to Williams. Seems a certain someones a fair bit wealthier than Will.
Wasn't Claris supposed to be from uptown Twinseeds, and Elliot from the Suburbs ?

And like I said previously, the FMV screens look like the same sitatuons form the intro's to the old game.

#11
DiGi Valentine

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Yeah, Claris was from a wealthy area of TwinSeeds and Elliot came from an apartment block (or as they're usually known in the uk, 'an estate').

I wouldn't put pins on a remake though. I think that SEGA have used many-a cameo of Elliot and Claris in the past, what with them appearing as faces on cards in SA1 on the pinball table and, if i'm not mistaken, are featured in Sonic Pinball Party (correct me on that one if i'm wrong). Fact is, fans of NiGHTS have become familiar with Elliot and Claris and i think it would be a bad move for them to rewrite over the original. I think that this is a new setting altogether and a different storyline, personaly. I just feel that maybe SEGA were lazy with the kids design and reused old aspects of the characters, what with the 'sports' and 'music' theme in mind for the kids. Lazy bastards.

I still think Helen looks much better because we knew less about her when we were told of her design. We were more informed on Kevin ...i mean William...back then. And, you know most football kids nowadays wear the tracksuits and what not. I don't think i've ever seen a 12 year old kid wear Khaki bloody long-shorts and a sleeveless bomber jacket, and i come from London. Home of the Chav.
Being honest, most 12 year olds in London who are of the 'football' crowd tend to be taller and smoking cigarettes. William looks like a 6 year old and no older in my eyes.
And i said the same thing to TRiP that Salem said. These characters look like those bland characters in FFXII. Why do they all look the same, damnit? Where the f*** has the originalty gone?

All in all, i'm going to be ranting about it come the next DreamCast and you lovely bunch can join me in on it.

#12
viperxmns

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I agree with the blandness. Heh, first pink and blue hair, now just blonde. Again, I'm okay with Helen, but William not so much. Come on Sonic Team, of course playing as NiGHTS is key, but the kids are main characters too. We need to like them. What if one of them was a painter? That might make for interesting dreams.

#13
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I agree with the blandness. Heh, first pink and blue hair, now just blonde. Again, I'm okay with Helen, but William not so much. Come on Sonic Team, of course playing as NiGHTS is key, but the kids are main characters too. We need to like them. What if one of them was a painter? That might make for interesting dreams.

Yeah. Getting creative would be nice ^-^! I would've liked to see William as an artist/painter. He would have some pretty awesome dreams :3.

#14
DiGi Valentine

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Though, even though i have an obvious dislike towards this William kid i will try and stay open minded...somehow.

TRiPPY brought up the topic of the Transformers movie to me just now. I was watching a review of the Transformers movie on youtube yesterday (we ain't gettin the film here in the UK until the 24th so no spoilers if you've seen it. ta.) and the reviewer mentions that when the film was first announced and the characters went through changes (like Optimus Prime getting a flame paintjob and Bumblebee becoming something other than a Volkswagon Beetle) the fans of the cartoon were a bit bummed down about it. They wanted a film with the characters from the cartoon and although they were getting some of them, they weren't getting all...and to top it off the characters were being altered slightly. The reviewer then goes on to say that he had that in the back of his mind when he went in to see the film and, being the old skool Transformers fan that he is, was expecting to dislike the changes.
The end of the review shows him saying how he actually ended up taking to heart the changes and begun to like the characters for what they were.
I guess what i'm trying to say is i am pretty much feeling nothing but indiference towards this William kid because as far as i can see he has not got the same character that Elliot seemed to have....but i'm willing to try and keep open minded and hopefully once i play the game, this sorry excuse for a character will somehow win me over.

#15
viperxmns

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*reiterates for this thread*

William looking young could factor in to his persona.. Especially wanting to play soccer/football (for the non-USA component of the boards tongue.gif ), if he's small for his age that would give him character.

Heck, I have experience with looking a lot younger than my actual age. If this were a trait for William I'd like him all the much more.

#16
Wizeman1213

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I'm a little bit worried that the new characters will not have the same nostalgia as the old ones...

#17
Louis

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So, now we know Helen wants to get away from her mum and William's dad has left him all alone.

What wants to bet the parents end up together in this game?

#18
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So, now we know Helen wants to get away from her mum and William's dad has left him all alone.

What wants to bet the parents end up together in this game?

*Raises hand* I'm also fairly certain that they are divorced or something.

#19
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God, some weird family issues will be going on for sure. xD

I can already see NiGHTS doing some male bonding with William... er, just bonding. xD
"I like you kid, I know how you feel, my father wasn't so great either..." ^_^

#20
Purgatory

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I like them, because they look really nice, but I dislike them, because it almost feels like NiGHTS is visiting an entirely different world. Which would be kind of cool if that's actually what he's doing, but I just think they wanted to make the poeple look more real. Maybe that also explains the lack of colourful hair..

They look really nice, but its just the stubborn old fan in me that is a little disappointed. So "Thanks, Sega. I appreciate the work, but what the eff did you do?!" XD

#21
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God, some weird family issues will be going on for sure. xD

I can already see NiGHTS doing some male bonding with William... er, just bonding. xD
"I like you kid, I know how you feel, my father wasn't so great either..." ^_^

LMFAO
That's hillarious. "Go now, get a friend to help you blow up your father" XD

#22
Roam

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I found the kids rather cute, but it seems they followed NiGHTS' design in making them, what with looking rather busy. I kinda like the kids, looks are one thing, but I'm withholding full judgement until I see everything else when the game is released. I found them cute, but at the same time, a little creepy, what with looking alike and all. Also, on Helen's scan in the bottom right where NiGHTS is grabbing the leg of that bird, doesn't the human-ish figure riding the bird look something like a Composer? It'd be interesting to see Minions that actually apply to the kids this time around, perhaps something that would actually intimidate them.

#23
AYRiES

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I have to say I LOVE Helen. Her outfit is really pretty I think, though I'm not fond of her hair... I dunno, maybe I'm just relieved she's 'frilly' in such a different way that I expected? Plus I like her shoes. XD Buuut on the other hand I really just do not like William. Just... eh, I dunno, it just doesn't look very nice. Some parts are even actually ugly. =\ Mm... On the other hand. He sleeps with his football. I find that oddly cute XD And I really like the violin thing, it's a nice change from female characters that sing, but still similar to the original kids which I kinda like.

Ehh, I DO wish there was some sort of overall colour scheme with them though, just because I really like the blue+pink=purple thing from the original.

Also, I have to agree, they look 9-10 to me, younger than what you might expect. I think it's the eyes, actually.

Edit: Wait, William TAYLOR has father issues? Excuse me while I retreat into my ooh-it's-almost-a-sci-fi-reference and giggle. XD Although, family acceptence, hmm. I actually kinda like the sound of it.

#24
Innotech

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honestly, I dont even care because I didnt really like Elliot or Claris' designs to begin with. This is an improvement IMO. they look like normal kids. Instead of deformed spawn. Not a bad thing. Also they definitely have that British air to them and thats not so bad. I like the whole direction, but maybe thats because I was more ready to embrace changes from the original. Also, in a way, Elliot and Claris appearance somewhat ruined the illusion of the dream world versus the kids Twinseeds reality. they looked like they actually belonged in nightopa, not twinseeds.

#25
Exploding-Man

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Hmm yeah, Claris and Elliot had better character designs. I don't like how the anime look was lost. Now its just two aryan children. Hitler would approve of this game. >_>

#26
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Hmm yeah, Claris and Elliot had better character designs. I don't like how the anime look was lost. Now its just two aryan children. Hitler would approve of this game. >_>

Yeah, I noticed that too. What do you have against that though? I always found blonde hair and blue eyes to be attractive.

#27
Innotech

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Hmm yeah, Claris and Elliot had better character designs. I don't like how the anime look was lost. Now its just two aryan children. Hitler would approve of this game. >_>

problem was they really didnt look very anime either. They just looked bizzarre. Little alien children.

#28
DiGi Valentine

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Yeah, I noticed that too. What do you have against that though? I always found blonde hair and blue eyes to be attractive.


Sure, it may be attractive but it can really get a bit too similar after a while. The thing that made Elliot and Claris standout was that they had vibrant colours. When i walk down the road i see 20 odd blonde people. It would be nice to play a game that had something different to what we see outside in the real world. I mean, that new Final Fantasy game. Our friend Darren played it while we were visiting and all the characters faces and hair an dclothing colours look too similar. The only character that stood out from what i saw was that chick who is half woman-half bunny rabbit. It's just nice to be able to play a game where there is a bit of variety.

problem was they really didnt look very anime either. They just looked bizzarre. Little alien children.


Put it down to the artists and their limits at the time. The original concept art of Elliot and Claris had a very manga-esque feel to it.

#29
Curiosity Inc.

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I agree that Helen and William look very bland and nondescript. To be honest, I wouldn't have it any other way.

For a game to be truly immersive, the main character needs to be like a blank slate that we can superimpose ourselves onto. That, in my opinion, is why there are main characters of both sexes. Furthermore, if you look closely at Link -- who was always meant to represent the player in every possible way -- he's very nondescript as well. Without the green tunic and the pointy ears, he could be anybody.

Honestly, I don't have a problem with the character designs. I do, however, think that they could have differently-colored hair. Claris and Elliot had their own color motifs and I think that would help very much.

ETA: But not pink and blue. That would not translate well into these photo-real FMVs the development team has created. Make one blonde, the other brunette. Or one brunette, the other red-head. Take your pick.

#30
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I wonder if there will ever be a NiGHTS game where you can create your own customized character.

#31
NNR07

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I wonder if there will ever be a NiGHTS game where you can create your own customized character.


One of my suggestions to SEGA was to have a 'create a maren' mode. Sadly, I'm sketchy on whether SEGA read all our e-mails, or, at least, most of them :/.

#32
MAiKU

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Well... Claris and Elliot were very differen't from eachother. One pink and the other blue. The clothes were kinda similar but not quite y'know?

With the new kids... i dunno. The clothing designs are original and help the characters stay true to the british-like theme of the residents of the city but they look too much alike. There's a similarity with them that gives me the feeling that they are related which is kinda lame since they aren't.

Their background stories are pretty neat though. Two kids with problems relating to their parents can give a great story for a game.

#33
Curiosity Inc.

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I wonder if there will ever be a NiGHTS game where you can create your own customized character.

That would be quite easy, given the advent of Miis.

Alas, I can't imagine the FMVs making that possible.

Their background stories are pretty neat though. Two kids with problems relating to their parents can give a great story for a game.

True. They have more potential story than Claris and Elliot had, at any rate.

#34
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Ugh I kept trying and trying to post a response to this while at work (people seem to think I'm actually here to work P: ). It's finally slowed down and now that I have a chance to post Curiosity beat me to what I was going to say.

I agree that Helen and William look very bland and nondescript. To be honest, I wouldn't have it any other way.

For a game to be truly immersive, the main character needs to be like a blank slate that we can superimpose ourselves onto. That, in my opinion, is why there are main characters of both sexes.



I personally am very pleased with both designs and names for the children. They have an aura of childlike innocence about them. While it's true they don't quite look 12 years old compared to kids nowadays, but if you compare how 12 year olds look now to how they looked when I was 12 there is a huge difference. Alot of the 12 year olds now look like mini hookers to me. lol Least the ones around here do. >>;

They have also been stressing the whole time about how immersive the gaming experience is going to be this time around. Ex: the weather mode that makes the game have the same weather as you. What better way to immerse yourself than giving you a somewhat blank character to imagine yourself as. It just makes it easier than if you have a well defined character that pops out at you. As for blonde hair and blue eyes, the reason for that might be because the people making it are japanese. Blonde hair and blue eyes are the complete opposite of thier own appearance. Just take a look at some anime sometime and see how many blonde haired, blue eyed people you can find. I read an article a long time ago about that subject and once I started looking I was surprised at how many there were. I also kind of like that the children look more realistic. Again it's then easier for you to put yourself in thier place. ^^

Well that's my two cents on this. I have to run before someone needs my help again. lol Oh also does anyone see a resemblance to Roxas in William or is it just me? XD lol

Ja mata ne!

#35
Curiosity Inc.

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I personally am very pleased with both designs and names for the children. They have an aura of childlike innocence about them. While it's true they don't quite look 12 years old compared to kids nowadays, but if you compare how 12 year olds look now to how they looked when I was 12 there is a huge difference. Alot of the 12 year olds now look like mini hookers to me. lol Least the ones around here do. >>;

They have also been stressing the whole time about how immersive the gaming experience is going to be this time around. Ex: the weather mode that makes the game have the same weather as you. What better way to immerse yourself than giving you a somewhat blank character to imagine yourself as. It just makes it easier than if you have a well defined character that pops out at you. As for blonde hair and blue eyes, the reason for that might be because the people making it are japanese. Blonde hair and blue eyes are the complete opposite of thier own appearance. Just take a look at some anime sometime and see how many blonde haired, blue eyed people you can find. I read an article a long time ago about that subject and once I started looking I was surprised at how many there were. I also kind of like that the children look more realistic. Again it's then easier for you to put yourself in thier place. ^^

Well that's my two cents on this. I have to run before someone needs my help again. lol Oh also does anyone see a resemblance to Roxas in William or is it just me? XD lol

Ja mata ne!

Very well posted, Tsuki. And yes, if you give Roxas short blond hair and squash his face a bit, he would look a lot like William.

Looking back at my own time as a 12-year-old (which wasn't too long ago), I realize that kids of that age want to grow up too quickly. That's the age where kids start to curse, look for pornography and dress in... shall we say "adult ways." I think we all would've been very upset if the PTB went that route. But these designs do have an innocence about them. They're almost like dolls, to be honest.

ETA: However, to be fair, I should point out that what we know of the storyline seems to resemble the rebellious nature and the desire to grow up that I've described. For the best, I suppose.

#36
catchan2007

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I'm not too keen on Helen's coat (horrible thing!) but i like the rest of it. I adore William though. I like their names too; but William is more signicant to me cause that's my granddad's name and he looks kinda like my oldest baby cousin (i made the mistake of showing the article with William's picture on it and it also had NiGHTS on it. My dad said that i looked like NiGHTS...), which is soooo cute!

#37
Tangocat777

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(My dad said that i looked like NiGHTS...)

:P

#38
Wizeman1213

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I think that Helen and William will look too common. The distinct characteristics of Claris and Elliot set them apart from the crowd, if you know what I mean. Does anyone else think this too? I hope I'm also not repeating any points already made.....

#39
Curiosity Inc.

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I think that Helen and William will look too common. The distinct characteristics of Claris and Elliot set them apart from the crowd, if you know what I mean. Does anyone else think this too? I hope I'm also not repeating any points already made.....

Indeed, these points have been brought up before. There also a few among us (myself included) who think that Helen and William are great because they don't stand out. These characters are blank slates for we gamers to impose ourselves upon.

#40
Artemis

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Well, I like the new characters, they do seem to look the same though....I had this idea that they could be siblings but I don't know exactly. They remind me of Kingdom Hearts for some reason, I guess it's the far-out clothes or something. Anyways, Helen and William do look to young for their age, but to me so did Claris and Elliot now that I look back on it.




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