63 replies to this topic

[Tashayarna]

Update!!

I just finished the rough draft of my fan Maren ^^ for the time being I’m going to call him “Aypricot Kleptomania”
Please leave constructive criticism!!

This is the simplistic colour version, which I like
Im thinking of making the triangle parts of his tail armour, just like markings instead of having them rasied.... also will prob re-colour said armour Blue, and take off some of the black.... try and limit it to 3-4 max colours....

Update Over!




I wish there was a “how to make your own fan-Maren” guide ^^;

I keep looking around on DA and seeing everyone’s fan Maren’s and NiGHTS characters and I must admit that I want one of my own ^-^; *blushes*

I mean I am a very creative person ^^ but when It comes to thinking bouncy nightmare-ish ness that well… needs to be as odd and colourful and bright as Maren’s are I kinda… well shy out ^^; I think to myself have I go too far O_O; is it to Kitsch?

I have an idea of what she/he would look like, but I wanted to come on here first and ask if there are any no-no’s when making a Maren? Or must dos? Really I guess I’m asking for advice? Those of you who have your own fan Maren’s how did they come about? Should it be something that just comes to you one night? Or did you design them?

don’t get me wrong I don’t just want a fan-Maren because everyone else has one, I want it to be my avatar in the NiGHTS community, so people will no me as Tashy with the-such and such- Maren

Anywhoo ^^; thanks for reading my ramblings ^.^ Woo for some odd reason my spell checker likes to capitalise Maren O_O; Oh! If this is in the wrong place sorry ;

[NNR07]

Here's a small one I made right now XD. Please note that you DO NOT have to follow this, this is just my opinion....

If there's something in here you/ the community doesn't 100% agree with, tell me. Don't flame me just because these are my views.:

Also note that I am using my fan-maren, SUSPi, as a guide. Everything I mention relates to him, or is in use by someone else.

MAREN CREATiON Guide.:

-Name
Well, like NiGHTS's name, I'd pick a name that has an "i" in it. And a name involving some kinda emotion, or dream-related object.:

Example.: SUSPiCION (That's my fan-maren XD). There are two "i"s (although, I only capatalize one. They each stand for something). Involves skepticism and PARANOiA (Another good fan-maren name XD).

I don't suggest lower casing.: "r"s, "c"s, and most concenents (sp?). They don't look right to me, for some reason (no offense to anyone).

-Personality
-He/she should be like you, or similar to you, or at least remind you of yourself in some way. If you choose a name that has to do with an emotion, make sure their way of acting often relates to their name. (i.e.: SUSPiCION causes dreamers to be afraid of him/her and the unknown.)

-You're practically free to give your maren it's own personality. Give him/her what you want to.
-Marens most likely don't love their targets (dreamers) very much. If they do, it's only one or two. Not many....
-Marens are often attracted to Ideya. They can't resist it. It's a mad hunger for them.
-If you wish, associate your maren with an Ideya. (i.e.: SUSPi's Ideya is Yellow, or Hope, because of his optimistic view on some parts of life). It should be recognizable that they should be associated with that Ideya (SUSPi dresses in yellow.).
-Marens can be cute, but very vicious. Sharp claws. Vicious fangs. A blood-thirsty appetite. Some things marens are thought of having....

-Suit/Looks.:

-Go wild. I suggest something wild, exotic, fancy, and/or crazy, but a simple costume (i.e.: SUSPi wears a big "X" across his chest, three stripes on his legs, three stripes on each horn. That's it.) will do. He/She is your maren, they can look anyway you want them to. This is how I personally discovered SUSPi, along with flashes of images that suddenly came to mind....
-If you're still unsure, try to call upon your maren while in a dream while lucid. Ask them to appear in the form you wish to know them by....

-Some marens are thought of looking similar to NiGHTS. They do not have to be. They're monsters, after all, not humans. They can look anthro, or like a normal animal, or like something that could only come out of a dream. Although, if you do draw a human-looking maren.:
-I suggest horns.
-DON'T give them a Nose, unless drawing them Genjika. NO NOSE in their normal form.
-Make their body look human. Although, changing them (giving them 500 legs XD) is ok....
- Long hair. Long hair = love XD.

---------------------------

That's all I can think of now. Hope that helped ^^! I haven't been around the community long enough to know lots of DO's and DON'T's, sooo.... yah.

And, should I split this up? It's kinda long, I know >_______<''!

[animejosse]

Moved this to Creative Stuff since I think it fits better there

Dark Burraki used to have a good guide on her site, but it's sadly gone now...

NNR07 has some good points - especially if the maren is supposed to represent yourself - but I don't quite agree about the lowercase letters. Of course, that's up to you Like he said, most fanmarens looks like NiGHTS, but they don't have too. Heck, they can even be based on animals or insects if you want to!

Re hair: Some people thinks maren shouldn't have hair. Personally I like them. Again, that's up to you.

[NNR07]

Moved this to Creative Stuff since I think it fits better there

Dark Burraki used to have a good guide on her site, but it's sadly gone now...

NNR07 has some good points - especially if the maren is supposed to represent yourself - but I don't quite agree about the lowercase letters. Of course, that's up to you Like he said, most fanmarens looks like NiGHTS, but they don't have too. Heck, they can even be based on animals or insects if you want to!

Re hair: Some people thinks maren shouldn't have hair. Personally I like them. Again, that's up to you.

Grr... I would love to see DB's guide. Too bad it's gone D:!

Thanks ! And, about the hair, I completely forgot about that XD. I think of, when marens have hair, it should be long. But, sometimes people say the headpiece NiGHTS wears shouldn't even come off. So, yeah, it's all up to you !

[Sairus]

It's easy to make fan marens! Just get a picture of NiGHTS and colour it in differently, hey presto! Your own fan character!

heh, on a more serious note, I think the first flaw in your quest to make a fan Maren is asking for a guide to making one. Reala and NiGHTS look similar just for the purpose of the player being able to fight someone with equal strength as themselves, and potentially so they could put a 2 player mode in the game.

Just go nuts! The game covers a wide tapestry of designs and if you somehow stumble across something that blatantly doesn't look like it belongs, you'll know it as well anyone would.
Look at Void from Sonic Shuffle, he is basically a fan maren, but looks radically different.
Also, if you're worried about the whole two lilliripes thing, jester caps are supposed to have three of em anyways (one for the ass's tail and two for the ears), so don't be bound by that design aspect!

And on a final note, NiGHTS is the only character in the game to have a name made up entirely of capitals with a small vowel. Making a maren doesn't require this feature.

[Purgatory]

Okay, this will probably be a lot to read.. Read if you will, if not, skim or skip, its not all that important. :/ *shrug* Especially because Purgatory isn't some super duper perfect fan Nightmaren.

Sairus, you're an ass. I love you. XD

Actually, to be honest.. I would advise against doing the whole "Oh, NiGHTS' name is spelled all caps with lower 'i', let me do that" thing. Its too cliche and look at everyone else's names of the canon group- they don't all have that pattern going so it isn't like its a species thing. Almost every fanmaren has something like that going on. It keeps your character from standing out, in a way. As a fan 'maren, Purgatory is an example of that, his name isn't even all caps.

I would also suggest not making it look so very much like NiGHTS. Sometimes its hard to do that because in all honesty, a lot of people go for the "humaren" look and there isn't all that much you can do with a side-placed smile, no nose, and eyes. And also, the hat and other details are key. Many people feel like they have to use the same kind of hat. (Same number of points, same style, regardless of colour) That's a pretty big NiGHTS feature, each of the "humaren's" hats vary in some way. Reala's are larger and go more off to the side, Jackle's curl upward kind of like a moth.. But so many people go with NiGHTS's hat.

There's a thousand things you can do with different clown or jester outfits and hats and even details with face paint, colours, and other such distinguishing things.

In my case, I would think that Purgatory doesn't look like NiGHTS, or really like anyone. But when I first started to draw him, I didn't know how to really make him look different, so I actually got picked on and he was called a "recolour". It hurt my feelings.. :/ (Well.. not in a XOXMG EMO way.. XD ) I just sucked at portraying him is all.

But now nobody says enything like that at all and in fact lots of people tell me they really really like him and he's a "good design". Which makes me happeh. The things I am prideful about when it comes to Purgatory that make him stand out to me are the shape of his face (And he has kind of a nose, but not quite.) his clothes, and most importantly his hat.

I find that characters generally come to me on their own and I just draw them out as natural as they want to flow.. whenever you feel like you're inspired to draw, try getting a nightmaren design out of it. Guaranteed it'll be influenced by your inspiration. :3

[NNR07]

Actually, to be honest.. I would advise against doing the whole "Oh, NiGHTS' name is spelled all caps with lower 'i', let me do that" thing. Its too cliche and look at everyone else's names of the canon group- they don't all have that pattern going so it isn't like its a species thing. Almost every fanmaren has something like that going on. It keeps your character from standing out, in a way. As a fan 'maren, Purgatory is an example of that, his name isn't even all caps.

Hmmm.... yes, I see what you mean by that. I do agree, sometimes it does look a little.... cliched. But, it doesn't bother me a lot, for some reason (Unless it's not an 'i'. That bothers me for some reason >.>!). And, yeah, that did dawn on me about Wizeman not spelt 'WiZEMAN'!

[Purgatory]

On another note..

-DON'T give them a Nose, unless drawing them Genjika.

Purgatory: I like my kinda-nose!

[Loren]

Note. These are all my own opinions not for argument, just notation.

It's easy for a 'how to make a fanmaren' guide to become 'how to make a mary sue' in that, while you can easily make up a list, a lot of it will end up as cliches. Then others will take these cliches and blurr them further! A creation is best as it comes to you naturally Of course, I have noticed a group of these said cliches and some of em aren't bad.

Wild design/clothing- subtitled
(another way to distinguish my chara from NiGHTS.) Fanmaren tend to have crazy costume design that may or may not include odd body structure.

Maren version of YOU- (MaRY Sue) This is not my favorite trend. On a side note, I did name my creature Lore, an abbreviated version of Loren, so I plead the fifth there. When it comes to personality traits and content though, it's more creative to invent or dream a fully dimensional chara with its own soul.

Take NiGHTS and add paint-- Tride and true recolours. You find them in Sonic and NiGHTS with equal frequency. Honestly, I wonder what the point is here. There's a thousand ways to vary even the usual set of round face no nose, so that's no excuse. It's even more confusing in Sonic, where one can create any unique creature.

Take Jackle, Reala, Puffy and add paint (see above)

Elaborate and symbolic name- Not all maren have these, unless one considers Puffy or Clawz poetic. It's all the rage with fan maren though.

ALL CAPS EXCEPT FOR THE i: Hm, well, NiGHTS has this configuration, but the other maren don't. I kinda like playing with lower case vowels and upper consonants, but this is real common.

Humaren configuration: Most fan marens resemble the Jackle-NiGHTS-Reala form (that is, humanoidish body shape and round head.) Nothing wrong with this.

No nose- Purgy aside most of em seem to lack a nose. I don't think it's a necessary design to a fan maren, but again it's common and does distinguish your critter.

I would suggest reading all about these trends and then tossing them when creating your own chara. S'what I think anyways

[MidgitLD]

My advice is this:

Look at what everyone else is doing... and do what HASN'T been done. Or go the opposite route from what everyone else is doing. That will make it more noticeable and not just "LOL another fanmaren". Nightmaren are more or less based on the principle of nightmares. Think of some stuff that's scared you to death in a dream and use it as an example of how diverse and inhuman looking maren can be.

Though, in my opinion, I would advise against doing the whole all caps/lower case 'i' and trying to tie the name into a concept. But that little tidbit is just my tiff.

[NNR07]

On another note.. Purgatory: I like my kinda-nose!

XDDD

The thing I mentioned with a nose is different from Purgatory's "kinda-nose" . Personally, I like Purgatory's "kinda-nose".

Oh, and a better version of a summarization of my big huge post.:

Do what YOU want to do.

That's basically what I did. I might've used a lot of cliches, but I'm happy with my maren ! *hugs SUSPi*

[Sairus]

Sairus, you're an ass. I love you. XD

Yes. Yes I am. And what a coincidence! I love me too!

Actually, here's another couple of things I meant to mention in my previous post...
Dream imagery were was heavilly researched during the development of NiGHTS, and the designs of the characters and most obviously their colours refelects this. haven't read up on this in a while, so my information may be a bit blurred, check it out yourself if you're interested.

NiGHTS:
Purple is one of the most calming colours when experienced in dreams and also has something to do with wish fulfillment I think...

Reala:
Red is the colour of passion, energy and also depicts hate and violence. Black is the night, hiddenness and unnaturalness and typically resonates with mourning.

Jackle:
Purple is the colour of chaos and heat, but can also represent calming warmth.

Just thought I'd throw that out there... when designing guys, maybe colours could give em another layer of detail you wish to implement?

[Tashayarna]

Moved this to Creative Stuff since I think it fits better there

Dark Burraki used to have a good guide on her site, but it's sadly gone now...

NNR07 has some good points - especially if the maren is supposed to represent yourself - but I don't quite agree about the lowercase letters. Of course, that's up to you Like he said, most fanmarens looks like NiGHTS, but they don't have too. Heck, they can even be based on animals or insects if you want to!

Re hair: Some people thinks maren shouldn't have hair. Personally I like them. Again, that's up to you.

Thank you for moving it It was a toss up between this folder and the NiGHTS one lol ^^; I likes hair I think it should be HUGE lol ^^ and as wild as possible ^.^

It's easy to make fan marens! Just get a picture of NiGHTS and colour it in differently, hey presto! Your own fan character!

heh, on a more serious note, I think the first flaw in your quest to make a fan Maren is asking for a guide to making one. Reala and NiGHTS look similar just for the purpose of the player being able to fight someone with equal strength as themselves, and potentially so they could put a 2 player mode in the game.

Just go nuts! The game covers a wide tapestry of designs and if you somehow stumble across something that blatantly doesn't look like it belongs, you'll know it as well anyone would.
Look at Void from Sonic Shuffle, he is basically a fan maren, but looks radically different.
Also, if you're worried about the whole two lilliripes thing, jester caps are supposed to have three of em anyways (one for the ass's tail and two for the ears), so don't be bound by that design aspect!

And on a final note, NiGHTS is the only character in the game to have a name made up entirely of capitals with a small vowel. Making a maren doesn't require this feature.

thank you I think the lower case I is fun though ^.^ lol maybe Im just a trend follower

Okay, this will probably be a lot to read.. Read if you will, if not, skim or skip, its not all that important. :/ *shrug* Especially because Purgatory isn't some super duper perfect fan Nightmaren.

Sairus, you're an ass. I love you. XD

Actually, to be honest.. I would advise against doing the whole "Oh, NiGHTS' name is spelled all caps with lower 'i', let me do that" thing. Its too cliche and look at everyone else's names of the canon group- they don't all have that pattern going so it isn't like its a species thing. Almost every fanmaren has something like that going on. It keeps your character from standing out, in a way. As a fan 'maren, Purgatory is an example of that, his name isn't even all caps.

I would also suggest not making it look so very much like NiGHTS. Sometimes its hard to do that because in all honesty, a lot of people go for the "humaren" look and there isn't all that much you can do with a side-placed smile, no nose, and eyes. And also, the hat and other details are key. Many people feel like they have to use the same kind of hat. (Same number of points, same style, regardless of colour) That's a pretty big NiGHTS feature, each of the "humaren's" hats vary in some way. Reala's are larger and go more off to the side, Jackle's curl upward kind of like a moth.. But so many people go with NiGHTS's hat.

There's a thousand things you can do with different clown or jester outfits and hats and even details with face paint, colours, and other such distinguishing things.

In my case, I would think that Purgatory doesn't look like NiGHTS, or really like anyone. But when I first started to draw him, I didn't know how to really make him look different, so I actually got picked on and he was called a "recolour". It hurt my feelings.. :/ (Well.. not in a XOXMG EMO way.. XD ) I just sucked at portraying him is all.

But now nobody says enything like that at all and in fact lots of people tell me they really really like him and he's a "good design". Which makes me happeh. The things I am prideful about when it comes to Purgatory that make him stand out to me are the shape of his face (And he has kind of a nose, but not quite.) his clothes, and most importantly his hat.

I find that characters generally come to me on their own and I just draw them out as natural as they want to flow.. whenever you feel like you're inspired to draw, try getting a nightmaren design out of it. Guaranteed it'll be influenced by your inspiration. :3

*hugs* thank you ^^ and I love Purg! ^.^ everyone needs a sulk lol, I read all of what you said and Ill take it on board! *salutes*

Note. These are all my own opinions not for argument, just notation.

It's easy for a 'how to make a fanmaren' guide to become 'how to make a mary sue' in that, while you can easily make up a list, a lot of it will end up as cliches. Then others will take these cliches and blurr them further! A creation is best as it comes to you naturally Of course, I have noticed a group of these said cliches and some of em aren't bad.

Wild design/clothing- subtitled
(another way to distinguish my chara from NiGHTS.) Fanmaren tend to have crazy costume design that may or may not include odd body structure.

Maren version of YOU- (MaRY Sue) This is not my favorite trend. On a side note, I did name my creature Lore, an abbreviated version of Loren, so I plead the fifth there. When it comes to personality traits and content though, it's more creative to invent or dream a fully dimensional chara with its own soul.

Take NiGHTS and add paint-- Tride and true recolours. You find them in Sonic and NiGHTS with equal frequency. Honestly, I wonder what the point is here. There's a thousand ways to vary even the usual set of round face no nose, so that's no excuse. It's even more confusing in Sonic, where one can create any unique creature.

Take Jackle, Reala, Puffy and add paint (see above)

Elaborate and symbolic name- Not all maren have these, unless one considers Puffy or Clawz poetic. It's all the rage with fan maren though.

ALL CAPS EXCEPT FOR THE i: Hm, well, NiGHTS has this configuration, but the other maren don't. I kinda like playing with lower case vowels and upper consonants, but this is real common.

Humaren configuration: Most fan marens resemble the Jackle-NiGHTS-Reala form (that is, humanoidish body shape and round head.) Nothing wrong with this.

No nose- Purgy aside most of em seem to lack a nose. I don't think it's a necessary design to a fan maren, but again it's common and does distinguish your critter.

I would suggest reading all about these trends and then tossing them when creating your own chara. S'what I think anyways

thank you verymuch ^^ what you said was very helpful! I kinda like the capital letter things lol ^^; and the no nose, but I think what I have in my head will prob have s kinda muzzel? I draw anthros with a really small muzzel, its how I make my style of drawing them unique to me ^^ its almost like a bump lol more than a nose! and the idea in my head is the same ^^ thanks for your advice! ^^

[animejosse]

I just remembered something in DB's guide: all boss-maren have something red and something yellow. Not sure if it's pure coincidence or not, but there you go.

[Inubu]

I should make a maren.*Walk of with a mountain of paper*

[Tashayarna]

I should make a maren.*Walk of with a mountain of paper*

lol I know that feeling ^^;

[NNR07]

I just remembered something in DB's guide: all boss-maren have something red and something yellow. Not sure if it's pure coincidence or not, but there you go.

Yes, someone told me that a little while ago about the red. Almost forgot XD.

thank you happy.gif I think the lower case I is fun though ^.^ lol maybe Im just a trend follower happy.gif

I love doing the lower case 'i' thing XD. It is fun .

[MYSTiCCOOKiE]

I think the cap names with lower i's are great! They're original in their own way and I think it links them more directly to NiGHTS.
Besides, cliches are fun xD If everybody avoided them there would be none and that would be a shame xD

But don't force yourself to make one, the best ideas crop up randomly and everything just clicks into place.

My maren MAGPiE is quite new, he/she has a design but no character yet (or gender for that matter) I'm hoping inspiration will strike me sometime or other.

Anyways good luck with yours!

[Tashayarna]

I think the cap names with lower i's are great! They're original in their own way and I think it links them more directly to NiGHTS.
Besides, cliches are fun xD If everybody avoided them there would be none and that would be a shame xD

But don't force yourself to make one, the best ideas crop up randomly and everything just clicks into place.

My maren MAGPiE is quite new, he/she has a design but no character yet (or gender for that matter) I'm hoping inspiration will strike me sometime or other.

Anyways good luck with yours!

danke ^^ same at you ^_~ I have an idea, I just have to make it look good!

[Sairus]

What about the chest gem? o_O Does anyone aside from NiGHTS and Wizeman have one?

...Hell, Jackle doesn't even have a chest to put one on! XD

[Tashayarna]

What about the chest gem? o_O Does anyone aside from NiGHTS and Wizeman have one?

...Hell, Jackle doesn't even have a chest to put one on! XD

lol very true ^^

[Purgatory]

Yeah, I wouldn't say a chest gem is a must. Purgatory has one, but meh.. a black gem looked good on him. And on his head, too. XD Be creative!

[Tashayarna]

Yeah, I wouldn't say a chest gem is a must. Purgatory has one, but meh.. a black gem looked good on him. And on his head, too. XD Be creative!

ha ha I just think of that picture on your da ^.^ poor sulky Purg ^.^

[NNR07]

I notice a popular thing with a few fan-marens is to have the chest gem on the headpiece, almost serving as a 'pin' to keep the head-piece in place, etc.

I've seen a few of them I do like (Purg's, OrganEater's, on the oekaki, PHOENiX), but I honestly don't like the gem-head-piece that much ._.! No offense to anyone.....

Although, it does make a bit of a nice decoration if done right !

[Purgatory]

Hm. Somehow I never noticed the "chest gem on the head" thing on other fan 'maren. (I wouldn't call what's on his head a chest gem! XD ) That may just be me being dense. But Purgatory's came from when I drew him in a human form and he had a gold diamond painted on his forehead. In his Nightmaren form, once I came to draw him that way, I changed it to an actual diamond on the head. In the nightamren form, there was no room for the diamond if not placed on the hat.

Purgatory: I DO WHAT I WANT! *snap snap headswivel* Y'alls just jeeealous! *pout*

...No ghetto Purgy...

Anyway, TASHY! Your Nightmaren is very cool!! Its unique and cute, aww~ I don't think I've ever seen one quite like that one, awesome job! I can't wait til you draw more of it! :3 One day, I shall scribble it too!

[~Tsuki~]

Kweee~~ Tashy~ your maren is adorable. <3's~ I wanna play with it. X3 Very neat design. ^-^ I love the lil pouty one. Soooo cute. *huggles him*

[Tashayarna]

Hm. Somehow I never noticed the "chest gem on the head" thing on other fan 'maren. (I wouldn't call what's on his head a chest gem! XD ) That may just be me being dense. But Purgatory's came from when I drew him in a human form and he had a gold diamond painted on his forehead. In his Nightmaren form, once I came to draw him that way, I changed it to an actual diamond on the head. In the nightamren form, there was no room for the diamond if not placed on the hat.

Purgatory: I DO WHAT I WANT! *snap snap headswivel* Y'alls just jeeealous! *pout*

...No ghetto Purgy...

Anyway, TASHY! Your Nightmaren is very cool!! Its unique and cute, aww~ I don't think I've ever seen one quite like that one, awesome job! I can't wait til you draw more of it! :3 One day, I shall scribble it too!

Thank you ^^ I was kinda wincing because I thought everyone would hate it

[Q-Lok]

Hmm. It would appear that I've run myself out of time to respond to this properly. I suppose I'll eventually post a proper guide in this topic for your future reference, but for now I'm going to stick to a critique. Please note, I haven't really read the other folks' guides in any detail (I kinda skimmed them), so I'm going by my own vision of the Nightmaren that I shall set forth in some future post.

First reactions (more or less typed as I had them):
Hoi! ...Gee, that's pretty cute. She looks sad, I wonder why? Whoa, I didn't realize how big her head was for a second! Is that a wing?

Itemized critique:
-Color. Color is a must here before I can get the full impact of your design. Without that, I will only have shape to go on. On the other hand, having only a black-and-white drawing to go on makes critique a whole lot simpler for the moment.
-Eyes. The eye shape and patterning are a bit unusual, mostly because of the breaks in the line defining the whites and the extra lines in the iris itself. The added lines imply altered colors in those areas which is both something that looks unrealistic in humans and a rather interesting stylistic addition to a Nightmaren's face.
-Other facial marking/line above the mouth. I'm interested to see what that line actually signifies. As it stands, though, it looks sort of like either a nose-line or a color split across the face. As a turned-up nose, I must say I think it detracts a bit from the overall design, but that could just be because I'm used to perfectly spherical heads on NiGHTS characters.
-Hair or other head shapes. This, again, is something I'm not used to. This is a good thing. Given that it's a seahorse-based design, I think it comes off looking rather like coral. However, there are two parts of this added shape that appear to be disconnected, the tufts on either side of the head, directly above each eye. They curl, also, which makes it appear to be a different substance or shape pattern than the rest, which again resembles rigid coral.
-Ears. Now, all else aside, this one threw me for a bit once I realized what they were. The style in which they are drawn reminds me strongly of CLAMP's anime/manga, Chobits. They look nice enough, but they don't really seem to have anything much to do with the "theme" of the design. I'm not certain I would remove them, but I also don't really think too many of the Nightmaren -- fan-made and otherwise -- have ears. Rather, the head-coils (lilliripes, before Sairus corrects me) are by far more prevalent. I'm not sure at all that they would fit in any better with the theme here, but I must say the ears are rather out-of-place.
-Whiskers. I'm sure you meant for those to be there, but they just look SO STRANGE to me. If they had a bit of color, and perhaps were more solidly connected to the face, I would probably be able to make my peace with them.
-Wing. This looks a tad out-of-place as well, but mostly because it's so small, and all on its own. Just tweak the size up a bit, draw the other one in proper perspective, give it a bit of color, and I think you'll be fine.
-Body. Seems extremely off. That would be the chibi-style kicking in. I actually like the style of the body, but it doesn look really incomplete in chibi-mode. I would strongly suggest re-drawing it with as many limbs as it's supposed to have.
-Name. The name you chose seems really odd to me. Maybe it's the non-allcaps, maybe the name itself, but most likely it's that it's a seahorse with the name Aypricot Kleptomania. Where's the connection?

I have more to say, but for lack of time it'll have to wait.

[Purgatory]

Well I really love her design because it is different and it shows that it doesn't necessarily have to be in a NiD style to be good. While she asked for critique, Q-Lok, most of the things you critiqued were a matter of taste and interest. If you look at the rest of her gallery, you can see that her style is anime/manga, so that explains the style of the nightmaren. Does manga/anime style confuse you? Also, the second picture shows a full sized body, not in a chibi form. I'm sure as she comes to get used to drawing him more and more, maybe we'll see colour and she will also be used to drawing these lovely details that she's put into him. ^^

Also, think about Clawz.. wouldn't he look a little strange without his ears? And about the nose, look at my avatar. Perhaps she meant to do a nose like that? I can see what she meant to draw, there.

And maybe she liked the name.. Maybe he steals sh!t. XD (I'm kidding. Granted, the name got me too. Heh heh.)

Anyhow, I really like your nightmaren and your style, Tashy! A lot of times (and I mean A LOT!) people mix up being true to style with just practically recolouring an existing nightmaren (especially NiGHTS!) and you completely dodged that! When I look at this nightmaren, I think of you, and there's just no editing that!

Edit- For j00:

Its just a doodle- But I hope you likes it~ <3

[Loren]

I really like it because it breaks established molds while keeping enough of the Maren design to be recognized as such. I basically love: ears, eyes (especially that little line on either side, uniquifies that anime style) and the hair. Now I know so many fan maren have the basic set appearance, but in my eyes it shouldn't be limited to a nazi specific set.

Criticism now: The design appears rather busy to me. Multitudes of patterns and appendages and motifs make him look quite interesting, but leaving two or three of them could look even better, balanced as well as creative.

[Purgatory]

The busy thing I have to agree with. There's a lot more patterns and details than even Purgatory has and a lot of people tell me Purgatory has too much going on with his appearance. ^^; But hey, if you can handle putting all that out each time you draw it, it isn't that big a deal.

[animejosse]

Iiiiih, so adorable! ...er, yeah, I'm not good with criticism

[Tashayarna]

Well I really love her design because it is different and it shows that it doesn't necessarily have to be in a NiD style to be good. While she asked for critique, Q-Lok, most of the things you critiqued were a matter of taste and interest. If you look at the rest of her gallery, you can see that her style is anime/manga, so that explains the style of the nightmaren. Does manga/anime style confuse you? Also, the second picture shows a full sized body, not in a chibi form. I'm sure as she comes to get used to drawing him more and more, maybe we'll see colour and she will also be used to drawing these lovely details that she's put into him. ^^

Also, think about Clawz.. wouldn't he look a little strange without his ears? And about the nose, look at my avatar. Perhaps she meant to do a nose like that? I can see what she meant to draw, there.

And maybe she liked the name.. Maybe he steals sh!t. XD (I'm kidding. Granted, the name got me too. Heh heh.)

Anyhow, I really like your nightmaren and your style, Tashy! A lot of times (and I mean A LOT!) people mix up being true to style with just practically recolouring an existing nightmaren (especially NiGHTS!) and you completely dodged that! When I look at this nightmaren, I think of you, and there's just no editing that!

Edit- For j00:

Its just a doodle- But I hope you likes it~ <3

eeeee picture *glomps* MUCH LOVE!! You make him look soo cooot x3

ZOMG I love that picture! *glomps* I agree he is rather busy, but Im working on simplifying him,

His name "Aypricot Kelptomania", Aypricot because apricots are Orange/Pink, and hes coloured like a koi carp, which are orange ^^ also on his bio its says that hes like a humming bird and has to eat sugery things to beable to fly, his fave foods are apricots ^^ Kleptomania because yeah... he likes to steal sh!t ^^; lol ESP dreamers ^^;;

His ears are ment to be like a llama's, he has Snake, Seahorse and llama parts, the llama part because I love them ; and I felt he needed a little somthing fluffy ^^
his hair is ment to be like dreds/coral. the whiskers well, he's based around sea monsters, and they usually have tentacles or something hanging off there face, but I wanted it to be more like traditional chinese dragons with the whiskers dropping down off there face.

On the subject of his wings, they are more like armour than wings, they arent made of skin lets say. and in the chibi picture they are tiny because... well its a chibi picture ;;; in the large more detailed picture his wings are bigger, and I didnt draw the other wing because I felt it would clutter the Composition of the picture too much ;

I think in all he does look better in colour... It helps to define whats there and things Im still wokring on his colour scheme but its getting there, and as I get used to drawing him more often he will prob loose some bits and bobs here and there anyways ^^ lol and for my characters hes actually VERY simple lol ;;;;

[Maki Izumii]

It's probably better to go away from the tried and true '1st rank' nightmaren look *ie - NiGHTS and Reala* and more towards the lower level. There's a lot more freedom to design and some of the results are awesome. As for a theme to design around, considering they're nightmare creatures, wouldn't it be better to base it on some sort of fear you have? *imagines a spider maren and cringes* It'd probably be better than basing it on something that has relevance to you whatsoever, I'd imagine.

[Tashayarna]

It's probably better to go away from the tried and true '1st rank' nightmaren look *ie - NiGHTS and Reala* and more towards the lower level. There's a lot more freedom to design and some of the results are awesome. As for a theme to design around, considering they're nightmare creatures, wouldn't it be better to base it on some sort of fear you have? *imagines a spider maren and cringes* It'd probably be better than basing it on something that has relevance to you whatsoever, I'd imagine.

Thank you for the advice ^^

[NNR07]

Alright, I know this topic has kinda collected dust now, but I'm going to post this anyhoo. It's much easier and to do this than making a new topic.

Also, I got a thumbs-up from Purg to do so, so it's not getting hijacked !:

I know this is outta the blue, but we need one, and I wanna make on .

Here's an intro to it. If more people want me to continue, or find it useful, I will.:

GUIDE TO NOT CREATING A MAREN-SUE

Please note.: Things associated with Mary/Maren-Sues aren't 100% bad. Most of them are good. It's just, they're cliched and over done. That doesn't mean that.:

A.) If you have a maren-sue, you're doomed. I've seen good mary/maren-sues.
B.) Associating your maren with a maren-sue thing is bad.

Also, don't feel let down if you think your maren is a maren-sue. You can fix up your character, all hope is not lost. Most maren-sues's personalities don't even have to be fixed up, just the story has to, and the maren-sue will come out ok!
First.:

What is a Maren-Sue?:

First of all, it is a play on "Mary-Sue".

A Mary-Sue is a overly cliched character that everyone loves to death, gets a lot of attention in a story, and is SUPA Powerful! And also tends to be overly emotional.

Every character (including yourself in the story of life ) has a Mary-Sue in them. It's how STRONG it is that affects people and their opinions .

People hate Mary-Sues to death. I personally don't hate them a whole lot, but there are a few that just make me roll my eyes >.>!

Why this Guide?:

Well, as I have found, Mary-Sue Litmus Tests (even the well-known Universal one) can be a bit.... well..... tricky when it comes to the NiD universe. Marens are suppose to be VERY POWERFUL creatures that can control dreams, like a dreamer can control a lucid dream. Therefore, a lot of people might see a thin line between Maren-Sue and Anti-Sue/Not-Maren-Sue. Also, writing a story about marens in Reality would be extremely hard, especially because Wizeman and the marens are said to be unstoppable in reality if able to go to so (it says in the manual).

And, because there are some things in specific about NiD that might trigger Maren-Sue thoughts/hatred that wouldn't occur in, say, Zelda fanfiction (no offense to either fandoms), it is good to clarify what and what not to do.

How will this guide work?:

I will not write it all. I would like a few people commenting on whether I should start the guide first or not have the guide. Also, I don't want feelings hurt, so if people (such as myself) are a bit sensitive on the topic, I will refrain from doing it.

Also, I might throw in SUSPi as an example, showing parts of him that are Maren-Sue -ish (Because, I admit, he's far from the perfect fan-maren ever. But, I still love him *hugs SUSPi*), and aren't (imo).

Section 1.:
-Name.:

- I personally DO NOT suggest naming your character EXACTLY after yourself. Ex.: Jane wants to make a fan-maren. Jane calls the fan-maren.... JaNE! No.
- Re-spelling your name or changing your name into a fan-maren's name..... might be kinda boarder-line. Again, I don't suggest doing so.
- Choose a name that is unique, has something to do with dreams, or has something to do with emotions. This might start going into the boarderline region, but I got away with it XD.
- The lowercase 'i' thing.: Use at your own risk. Again, SUSPi is spelt.: SUSPiCION! I went unique and only lowercased one 'i'. But, the 'i' thing tends to get kinda cliched. That's a point for SUSPi's Maren-Sue level D:!
- Be unique.

Section2.:
- Personality

- A fan-character is your fan-character. They can have whatever personality you want them to have.....
- .... but a maren with YOUR personality tends to start to become Maren-Sue -ish.... So, what do you do?
- Well, first, I gave SUSPi my personality, but made him a bit tougher (BUT NOT STRONGER THAN REALA!), have different morals (religion, violence, peace, blah blah blah) and etc.! NOW, I'm not 100% sure to be honest the fandom's stance on doing so, but I've seem to gotten away with making SUSPi like me XD.
- Anyway, a Maren-Sue isn't a Maren-Sue JUST BECAUSE OF THEIR PERSONALITY! It takes several factors to get into that red area, just like it takes several factors to get into the green area.
- My suggestion.: Like SUSPi, if you choose a maren with your personality, throw in different morals, or make them tougher, or make them a tad bit different then you.
- If you don't want a maren with your personality......:
- Make sure the maren is not strong enough to beat up Wizeman with one punch.
- Make sure your maren is not IMMEDIATELY LOVED by all. Your maren should not be dating NiGHTS, especially of marens lack sex drives :/.
- Your maren can act sluttish, but, again, that's a bit of a grey area.
- Give them a unique personality.
- Make sure that some people hate them...
- .... but not because they are so great.

- Also, your maren should not be like NiGHTS and rebel. If they do, they should sometime after Wizeman's death.
- And
Section 3.:
- Strengths and Weakness.:

- I will say this once, and only once.: YOUR MAREN ISN'T INVULNERABLE! Look at Reala, Gillwing, Clawz, the lovable Gulpo, Jackle, Puffy! They all have weaknesses. Every last one. So does NiGHTS. Dreamers, in a way, are his weakness, and he looses 5 seconds every time he gets hit.
- Also, YOUR MAREN ISN'T SUPERMAN! Yes, marens are pretty tough cookies and very strong, but they can't kill Wizeman with one punch. Your maren shouldn't be able to kill Reala, or any other maren, with ease.
- On the contrary, your maren should be able to kill a dreamer with ease.
- All marens seem to have identical powers in one way or another. Try to give your maren the same power, or powers that are similar to the other marens (teleportation, paraloop, etc. etc.)
- Your maren should have powers, just not be too strong or too weak. Your maren shouldn't be as strong as Reala or Wizeman OR NiGHTS! I'll tell your that RIGHT NOW!

Section 4.:

Looks

Will come soon.

[Tashayarna]

Alright, I know this topic has kinda collected dust now, but I'm going to post this anyhoo. It's much easier and to do this than making a new topic.

Also, I got a thumbs-up from Purg to do so, so it's not getting hijacked !:

I know this is outta the blue, but we need one, and I wanna make on .

Here's an intro to it. If more people want me to continue, or find it useful, I will.:

GUIDE TO NOT CREATING A MAREN-SUE

Please note.: Things associated with Mary/Maren-Sues aren't 100% bad. Most of them are good. It's just, they're cliched and over done. That doesn't mean that.:

A.) If you have a maren-sue, you're doomed. I've seen good mary/maren-sues.
B.) Associating your maren with a maren-sue thing is bad.

Also, don't feel let down if you think your maren is a maren-sue. You can fix up your character, all hope is not lost. Most maren-sues's personalities don't even have to be fixed up, just the story has to, and the maren-sue will come out ok!
First.:

What is a Maren-Sue?:

First of all, it is a play on "Mary-Sue".

A Mary-Sue is a overly cliched character that everyone loves to death, gets a lot of attention in a story, and is SUPA Powerful! And also tends to be overly emotional.

Every character (including yourself in the story of life ) has a Mary-Sue in them. It's how STRONG it is that affects people and their opinions .

People hate Mary-Sues to death. I personally don't hate them a whole lot, but there are a few that just make me roll my eyes >.>!

Why this Guide?:

Well, as I have found, Mary-Sue Litmus Tests (even the well-known Universal one) can be a bit.... well..... tricky when it comes to the NiD universe. Marens are suppose to be VERY POWERFUL creatures that can control dreams, like a dreamer can control a lucid dream. Therefore, a lot of people might see a thin line between Maren-Sue and Anti-Sue/Not-Maren-Sue. Also, writing a story about marens in Reality would be extremely hard, especially because Wizeman and the marens are said to be unstoppable in reality if able to go to so (it says in the manual).

And, because there are some things in specific about NiD that might trigger Maren-Sue thoughts/hatred that wouldn't occur in, say, Zelda fanfiction (no offense to either fandoms), it is good to clarify what and what not to do.

How will this guide work?:

I will not write it all. I would like a few people commenting on whether I should start the guide first or not have the guide. Also, I don't want feelings hurt, so if people (such as myself) are a bit sensitive on the topic, I will refrain from doing it.

Also, I might throw in SUSPi as an example, showing parts of him that are Maren-Sue -ish (Because, I admit, he's far from the perfect fan-maren ever. But, I still love him *hugs SUSPi*), and aren't (imo).

Section 1.:
-Name.:

- I personally DO NOT suggest naming your character EXACTLY after yourself. Ex.: Jane wants to make a fan-maren. Jane calls the fan-maren.... JaNE! No.
- Re-spelling your name or changing your name into a fan-maren's name..... might be kinda boarder-line. Again, I don't suggest doing so.
- Choose a name that is unique, has something to do with dreams, or has something to do with emotions. This might start going into the boarderline region, but I got away with it XD.
- The lowercase 'i' thing.: Use at your own risk. Again, SUSPi is spelt.: SUSPiCION! I went unique and only lowercased one 'i'. But, the 'i' thing tends to get kinda cliched. That's a point for SUSPi's Maren-Sue level D:!
- Be unique.

Section2.:
- Personality

- A fan-character is your fan-character. They can have whatever personality you want them to have.....
- .... but a maren with YOUR personality tends to start to become Maren-Sue -ish.... So, what do you do?
- Well, first, I gave SUSPi my personality, but made him a bit tougher (BUT NOT STRONGER THAN REALA!), have different morals (religion, violence, peace, blah blah blah) and etc.! NOW, I'm not 100% sure to be honest the fandom's stance on doing so, but I've seem to gotten away with making SUSPi like me XD.
- Anyway, a Maren-Sue isn't a Maren-Sue JUST BECAUSE OF THEIR PERSONALITY! It takes several factors to get into that red area, just like it takes several factors to get into the green area.
- My suggestion.: Like SUSPi, if you choose a maren with your personality, throw in different morals, or make them tougher, or make them a tad bit different then you.
- If you don't want a maren with your personality......:
- Make sure the maren is not strong enough to beat up Wizeman with one punch.
- Make sure your maren is not IMMEDIATELY LOVED by all. Your maren should not be dating NiGHTS, especially of marens lack sex drives :/.
- Your maren can act sluttish, but, again, that's a bit of a grey area.
- Give them a unique personality.
- Make sure that some people hate them...
- .... but not because they are so great.

- Also, your maren should not be like NiGHTS and rebel. If they do, they should sometime after Wizeman's death.
- And
Section 3.:
- Strengths and Weakness.:

- I will say this once, and only once.: YOUR MAREN ISN'T INVULNERABLE! Look at Reala, Gillwing, Clawz, the lovable Gulpo, Jackle, Puffy! They all have weaknesses. Every last one. So does NiGHTS. Dreamers, in a way, are his weakness, and he looses 5 seconds every time he gets hit.
- Also, YOUR MAREN ISN'T SUPERMAN! Yes, marens are pretty tough cookies and very strong, but they can't kill Wizeman with one punch. Your maren shouldn't be able to kill Reala, or any other maren, with ease.
- On the contrary, your maren should be able to kill a dreamer with ease.
- All marens seem to have identical powers in one way or another. Try to give your maren the same power, or powers that are similar to the other marens (teleportation, paraloop, etc. etc.)
- Your maren should have powers, just not be too strong or too weak. Your maren shouldn't be as strong as Reala or Wizeman OR NiGHTS! I'll tell your that RIGHT NOW!

Section 4.:

Looks

Will come soon.

hooray for guides!! *throws confeti*

[Purgatory]

I don't think anything that can be called a "Mary-Sue" is good. Mary-Sue is never supposed to be a good thing. The problem is this:

Just like the name "emo" originally beginning as an insult but then being commandered by emos as a compliment or a style, the name "Mary-Sue" has also been commandered by some as a compliment or a label for ALL fan characters. Not all fan characters are to be Mary-Sues. Only bad ones. XD

[Tashayarna]

I don't think anything that can be called a "Mary-Sue" is good. Mary-Sue is never supposed to be a good thing. The problem is this:

Just like the name "emo" originally beginning as an insult but then being commandered by emos as a compliment or a style, the name "Mary-Sue" has also been commandered by some as a compliment or a label for ALL fan characters. Not all fan characters are to be Mary-Sues. Only bad ones. XD

agreed lol X3