62 replies to this topic

[EZEKiAL]

Alright, there's been a bit of arguing about Jackle's role in Wizeman's plans. Here's what I think:

Jackle, to begin with, was a Level 2 Nightmaren, just like the others, but then NiGHTS betrayed Wizeman. Thus, Wizeman gave Jackle free-will and made him a First-Level to replace NiGHTS.

DiSCUSS and post your ideas.

~Zeke

[Louis]

I think he's dead.

[animejosse]

I think he's still Level 2. There's really nothing indicating he was promoted, not even a little intro like Reala and Wizeman had.

[NNR07]

I agree with animejosse (and Louis XD).

Although, thinking Jackle gets promoted to 1st kinda would break into my maren's story (that's what happens to SUSPi in an alternate universe kinda deal). So... yah. But, I can see the reasoning behind Jackle getting promoted to 1st (Claris's last boss. No one to fill NiGHTS's shoes/suit XD. Etc.).

[Sairus]

I think he's dead.

We all thought that about Reala too, didn't we? Yet he's back in JoD.

Personally, I've always felt that Jackle was on par with NiGHTS and Reala, if not more powerful than them (he sure as Hell is more annoying to take down) and although I have nothing to base it on, always sort of assumed he was created after the Level Ones as an improved version.

[AirMax]

Starting off, Jackle's my favorite Maren. I know NiGHTS is mad at me now. And he better at least have a cameo in Journey Of Dreams, Night of the Falling Stars, or whatever. Please Sega?

On the whole level issue, I think he's up there with NiGHTS and Reala. Like said above, he is a pain in the arse. Plus, he's invisible! What's more cool then that?

Also, did you see his room? Reala's is just a big old chair inside large a glass case. As far as I care, he's trapped in there. Jackle has a big old cool tent full of weird things, and you can see outside. As far as I can see, he can go anywhere.

[Huruyami]

I think hes just regular 2nd level. I mean hes just like another regular boss, just uprisen by fan popularity.

[Dark Magician]

I am probably going to get beaten up for this, but I believe that Jackle is actually a prototype for NiGHTS and Reala, the 2 first level Nightmaren. I say that mostly because out of all the others Jackle is the closest to our 1st level bad boys/girls in appearance and the sense that he doesn't really need brute force to win a fight. After Puffy and co, Wizeman tried doing something new and came up with Jackle... who turned out to have a bit more stronger and intelligent than the others, even if he was a bit more insane. Even though Jackle gave him the creeps, he liked the concept and made the more perfected (and probably mentally stable) NiGHTS and Reala. So either Jackle is a strong level 2 Nightmaren, or the only 2 1/2 level Nightmaren in existence.

But that's just my theory...

[Purgatory]

Oy vey. I didn't think I'd see that one pop up again. I agree with Louis. XD

I also think Jackle would be a HORRIBLE first level because he's obviously off his rocker. I also think that he's not worthy to replace NiGHTS. Why not just make ANOTHER one.....

[Sairus]

Why not just make ANOTHER one.....

Because that worked so well the first time... XD

Personally, I think Jackle is going to be back in the next game, if even in an altered form like our friend Fuckle, since she basically looks like Puffy and from the description of the battle, plays exactly like her.
Let's face it, if they put Puffy back in the game (who seems to be down there with Gulpo in terms of general favouritism) Jackle's got a decent shot.
I'm not a huge fan of Jackle or anything, just sayin' is all... XD

[Louis]

Oit. Gulpo rocks.

[Huruyami]

I still think its a fan uprisign. heck, if i could gather enough fans i could say that gillwing is 1st level and pass it. thats what i belive is the deal with jackal.

[Sairus]

Oit. Gulpo rocks.

Hense why I said 'general favouritism'. If you ask a group of fans who their least favourite Maren is, between 9 and 8 out of 10 will say Gulpo. XD

[EZEKiAL]

I still think its a fan uprisign. heck, if i could gather enough fans i could say that gillwing is 1st level and pass it. thats what i belive is the deal with jackal.

Oh really...I'll test your theory then.

ZOMG PIANZ ARE LEVEL 0 NIGHTMAREN!
*waits for everyone else to believe it*

[DMN]

I for one beleive Jackle might have been an "accident" of Wizeman's from when he was making NiGHTS & Reala, and all the junk in his room is to keep him occupied and amused. Either that or he's the embodiment of all the nightmares of "being attacked by a madman" that have ever existed. Or he's just the result of too many crazy people needing Nightmares...

[Alanora]

Think I'm gonna have to go with Purg on this one. Jackle is too nutty to do the first level thing. And anyway, why not just make another? Maybe just a little less insane, and there you go. It's not like Wizeman wouldn't be able to just build a clone. Besides, Jackle was enough of a nasty to simply not keep around. Heh.

[Huruyami]

Oh really...I'll test your theory then.

ZOMG PIANZ ARE LEVEL 0 NIGHTMAREN!
*waits for everyone else to believe it*

.......well they breed, build towers, change music and are fun to destroy. I believe that XD

[Tangocat777]

If Wizeman promoted Jackle, he would be showing compassion.

[Huruyami]

maybe not. Reala is 1st level, and he has no compassion at all.

[Q-Lok]

maybe not. Reala is 1st level, and he has no compassion at all.

Perhaps. But on the other hand, we know that Reala was actually created to be First-Level. Jackle was not, hence the reason that I can personally believe that he now occupies NiGHTS' spot in the hierarchy (assuming, that is, that there even *is* one), and yet remains a Second-Level. I think that it's totally plausible for Wizeman to have promoted him to NiGHTS' spot and given him a bit of extra power, but making him First-Level proper is most likely impossible. As far as just "making a new one" to replace NiGHTS, I don't think so. The kind of power required to just do something like that, I think, would be far beyond even Wizeman's means, particularly since he needed as much Ideya energy as he could get in order to get to the waking world at the time and couldn't spare enough to create new Nightmaren at the time. It would explain why there are only eight Nightmaren (including Wizeman) at Second-Level and above, at least.

Saying 'Pians are Zero-Level Nightmaren, actually, is quite justifiable. It's a silly idea, but hey -- sillier stuff's been done in this fandom.

[~Tsuki~]

I think Jackle is a level 2 Maren. P: I like Jackle, but he's my least favorite boss fight. lol

[Sa-chan]

*raises hand* I'm sorry if this is offtopic but I'm wondering if anyone really knows what being a first or second level maren even means. o_o Because I don't. To my knowledge, that was never explained. It was just a stated fact, that NiGHTS and Reala are first level and the rest are second level.
So is that rank based on how powerful they are? Or is it like a mark of authority or something? I have no idea. o_o

Anyway as for Jackle's design, I always thought he was something like a prototype. Like he was Wizeman's first attempt at creating a human-like maren, but he turned out just a little bit too insane. So Wizeman put him aside and gave him his little psychoroom, and then tried again and came up with NiGHTS and Reala.

Or something.

[Huruyami]

You have it right Sa-Chan. its basically an authority/power thing.

[Purgatory]

Well if there's a second game with new nightmaren, than it would have been entirely possible to make another one. But yeah, my point pretty much was that even making another would be better than promoting Jackle. And that would be bad too. XD

On another note, nightopians are not from Nightmare or created by Wizeman, so no, they wouldn't be "level zero nightmaren". :/

[Sage]

I don't think Jackle was ever promoted from 2nd level, but it's interesting to note that of the major Nightmaren in the game, only the following actually speak: NiGHTS, Reala, Jackle, Puffy, and Wizeman. (check out the sound effects part of NiD and listen to the voices XD)

I wonder if that counts for anything. XD

[EZEKiAL]

*raises hand* I'm sorry if this is offtopic but I'm wondering if anyone really knows what being a first or second level maren even means. o_o Because I don't. To my knowledge, that was never explained. It was just a stated fact, that NiGHTS and Reala are first level and the rest are second level.
So is that rank based on how powerful they are? Or is it like a mark of authority or something? I have no idea. o_o

Anyway as for Jackle's design, I always thought he was something like a prototype. Like he was Wizeman's first attempt at creating a human-like maren, but he turned out just a little bit too insane. So Wizeman put him aside and gave him his little psychoroom, and then tried again and came up with NiGHTS and Reala.

Or something.

It's more than just power.

1st Level are capable of their own actions, hence NiGHTS' traitorous acts, and have free will.
2nd Level Nightmaren are basically puppets of Wizeman's. They do what he tells them to, no questions asked.
3rd Level, and the most common, Nightmaren, are just stupid little beings that torment people and eat Pians.
In theory, a 0 Level Nightmaren would be one not created by Wizeman, and not at all under his control.
4th Level Nightmaren would be the matter from which all Nightmaren are created (basically pure dream energy).

[Purgatory]

"In theory, a level zero nightmaren would be a Mary-Sue"

Please, make sure you mention in your posts that they are your opinions and personal fan theories. The level zero and four things, I have NO idea what that is.

[Louis]

I'm a level three elf.

[Purgatory]

I'm a level three elf.

Oh! That's awesome! That means Wizeman obeys YOU! And you also created Ideya.

[Louis]

Yes, only the Pians are in charge of me.

[Huruyami]

Lol I'm a .001 level verol shleep warlock hybrid XD

[KyraWolf]

Jackle is a close second favorite after NiGHTS. If he doesn't even MAKE a cameo in JoD, I'll be very upset. D8 Even if it's just his laugh or something, really.

I don't think he was even promoted to first level nightmaren before, after NiGHTS left, but whatever, He sure is as cool as hell. :3 I mean, whats cooler than a psycho/insane maren thing with jumbo killer tarrot card of DEATH!?

If Reala can be back in JoD, so can Jackle. :3 Im just rambling now, Im sorry. I'll stop.

[Huruyami]

True kyra, too. If reala can be in there....THEN PUFFY CAN TOO. (and MiDGET NiGHTS)

[KyraWolf]

True kyra, too. If reala can be in there....THEN PUFFY CAN TOO. (and MiDGET NiGHTS)

MiDGET NiGHTS IS A NEED.

[NNR07]

MiDGET NiGHTS IS A NEED.

MiDGET NiGHTS needs love D<! *hugs MiDGET NiGHTS*

About the 1st level marens, 2nd level, blah blah blah, here's some documentation I mentioned before on maren classes. THESE ARE OFFICIAL.:

Edit: Found link :3.: http://web.archive.org/web/19970215174910/.../cast/text.html

NIGHTMARENS
Nightmarens are the crazy inhabitants of Nightmare, the dark fearful world ruled by Wiseman, their creator. They derive an insane pleasure from startling and scaring people, and spend most of their time doing so. Unlike Nightopians, who accept each visitor's consciousness the way it exists, Nightmarens use various methods to fill the visitor with fear and surprise. There are many different kinds of Nightmarens which can be broadly grouped into three levels, based on intelligence:

* First-Level Nightmarens
The most intelligent of the creatures, each with a will of its own. (NiGHTS, the hero of our story, is one of the few First Level Nightmareans.)

* Second-Level Nightmarens
They are more intelligent than Third Level Nightmarens and have the ability to create worlds of their own.

* Third-Level Nightmarens
These creatures are the least intelligent and by far the most violent.

For those who hate to read.:
First are intelligent, and have free-will. There might be more than NiGHTS and Reala, as the things in the parentheses implies by saying "few". It implies to me there might be more, because they probably would of said "one of the only" if it were just NiGHTS and Reala. But, that more FAN-SPECULATION then anything >.>! Good example.: NiGHTS and Reala.

Second are pretty intelligent, but 1st are brighter. They can create their own worlds. Good Example.: SUSPi (my maren. The maren that's my avatar.) is 2nd class. So is Jackle and Clawz (most likely).

Third are as bright as a broken lightbulb XD. They are very, very violent. Good Example.: Gillwing. Puffy. Gulpo (possibly)

[Huruyami]

I think that NiGHTS and Reala are 1st, All the other bosses are 2nd level, and the little minions are 3rd.

[NNR07]

I think that NiGHTS and Reala are 1st, All the other bosses are 2nd level, and the little minions are 3rd.

Well, err... I think Nightmarens are the bosses and only the bosses. I think minions are something different in themselves. Not quite Nightmarens, imo.

But, that's just me >.>!

[Huruyami]

Well, the minions are none too bright, so I guess they could pass as 3rd level marens. Also, I voted for you. Go NNR! Woo!

[NNR07]

Well, the minions are none too bright, so I guess they could pass as 3rd level marens. Also, I voted for you. Go NNR! Woo!

Hmm... I see your reasoning behind it.

Errr.... off-topic, yeah, but Q-Lok here had a huge contest for his NiD-Universe and the dream creations called "Demia". I participated, and the 1st and 2nd place people get subbies. If you could vote for me, I'd really appreciate it and try to return the favor. I'm down by 2 votes for 2nd, and down by 7 votes for 1st :/. Thanks, pal ^-^! I thought you might've brought me to 7 votes.

[Huruyami]

Eh. Thats what pals are for. *go vote for NNR NOW.*

Anyway, back on topic, What level do you think pians are on? I think they are level 0. I think random maren are like level 4 because they are so basic.