71 replies to this topic

[TRiPPY]

Hummmmm ... http://www.gamestm.c...ckles-chaotix-2

Thoughts on that everyone?

[DiGi Valentine]

Yes, my thoughts are this -

we've been making a lot of noise lately, contacting Yuji Naka for that interview we did resulted in Iizuka getting involved since Naka spoke to him about us lot, now 'Zuki-baby is thinking third game.

All i can say is, port the original game first. Let people experience the original. Then follow similar format for the third game. You'll see a better response on a third game if you let everybody play the first one and understand the difference between NiD and JoD.


..........
..........'Zuki-baaaby!! WHASSSSS 'APPENIN?

[Veranai]

hmmmmm... I'm glad to see that he WANTS to work on a new NiGHTS game, but I want to see the original ported first. ^^

Also: That is a creepy Zuki. o3o

[Level 99]

Further elaborating on my comment on the frontpage-thingy, I'm much more interested in a) getting a port of the first and seeing what Sonic 4 and Sonic Colors end up like. Getting a port would be the best introduction to the NiGHTS-verse for newcomers and a great reminder/gift to old fans. Plus, it sets up an easy way to get into a third game afterwards, should a third actually materialize.

A thought occurs: seeing as now PS3 and 360 will both be getting their own respective motion control peripherals, this could be fantastic news for fans of the original AND JoD alike. If not for the new game than even for a port, if the creators are still looking for that hook to present the new gameplay element of motion input, all three current systems will soon offer it. No longer could an excuse be made to make it for the Wii just for motion input. And while I know some people will be clamoring for it, just because it could potentially be in HD doesn't mean it will need the big budget some of these uber-realistic games require these days.

I'll stop my rambling...for now. This is relevant to my interests, though. I will be watching Sonic Team and Mr Izuka intently.

[Noctourne Wonderland]

I don't know how to feel about this. No matter how a NiGHTS 3 would turn out, non one would like it. As NiGHTS fans, we had one game for 11 years. When JoD came out and there was a slight deviation from the usual formula, it was quickly denounced. It doesn't mean that JoD is bad; most people who played it first perfer it to NiD. But since the original is so ingrained in the conciousness of the older fanbase, anything that changed that was instantly labeld as terrible. Since the original was so magical and nostalgic for so many people, changing that is like messing with someone's childhood. Fan reaction would be more positive with a port, becuase Sega tried to be a sequel and do new things and everyone was up in arms.

I personally want the PS2 remake rleased on other systems (Wii, 360, PS3, what have you) outside Japan, because it takes everything that NiD did right, but improves little things, like graphics and making Christmas NiGHTS it's own game. That is the closest to a sequel that can really be done without criticism; old timers like NiD and want to keep the fanon, while new fans can adapt since NiD is so much like JoD. I'd doubtlessly love NiGHTS 3, but I don't think anyone would see it as more than "that other game," like JoD.

[DiGi Valentine]

I'm with the people who are concerned about a NiGHTS 3 being just another JoD again, that's my main worry too.

But at the same time, i know it doesn't take a lot to make a good NiGHTS game. As stated, we've only had two full games to compare to one another. If Iizuka takes the feedback from JoD and looks at what made NiD so great he could honestly craft a good third game.

Remember people, if this was the Sonic fanbase there would be too many people to cater for. We are lucky in the sense we are smaller and our opinions seem mostly matched on certain things regarding the NiGHTS franchise.

If there ever will be a NiGHTS 3, NiD needs to be released first so people understand why the cult following is here. Then Iizuka will honestly need to look at both games and realise what made NiGHTS so great to begin with.

Again, it's not hard to make a good NiGHTS game. They just need to be in the right frame of mind to make it happen correctly.

Also, one thing they certainly don't need is the upper heads at SEGA moving the game around every other month and screwing production time. That's always another pain in the arse.

[TRiPPY]

No matter how a NiGHTS 3 would turn out, non one would like it.

Well I don't think that's true, I mean JoD has fans and there are things that people like about the game. As far as 'pleasing old time fans' goes it always boils down to this:

Game comes out. Very long time passes. In that long time fans develop their own ideas/likes/dislikes. They become concreted in their brains. Something new comes out. Fan 1 meets fan 2. They all have different opinons and ideas. Clash happens. Can't please everyone.

I mean the majority of you would probably hate a NiGHTS game that -i- made, or DiGi made, or Level99 made, or whoever made. I find a lot of fan ideas a bit eew. Because it's not directly what YOU want as a fan. Especialy after such a long time has passed. We all just get greedy for our own satifactions :] It's natural when you give a damn about something. But I will say this, Sonic 4 is looking wonderful and with the right people inputing or heading a project wonderful things can be done. Every game series has its lovers and haters, nobody can say their series is flawless, someone will always hate it and someone will always love it. If NiGHTS 3 was handled the way NiGHTS JoD -SHOULD- have been then i think it could be a beautiful and rewarding game. It doesn't mean JoD all over again (for those of you who think it was terrible), NiGHTS isn't Sonic.

[Noctourne Wonderland]

Well I don't think that's true, I mean JoD has fans and there are things that people like about the game. As far as 'pleasing old time fans' goes it always boils down to this:

Game comes out. Very long time passes. In that long time fans develop their own ideas/likes/dislikes. They become concreted in their brains. Something new comes out. Fan 1 meets fan 2. They all have different opinons and ideas. Clash happens. Can't please everyone.

I mean the majority of you would probably hate a NiGHTS game that -i- made, or DiGi made, or Level99 made, or whoever made. I find a lot of fan ideas a bit eew. Because it's not directly what YOU want as a fan. Especialy after such a long time has passed. We all just get greedy for our own satifactions :] It's natural when you give a damn about something. But I will say this, Sonic 4 is looking wonderful and with the right people inputing or heading a project wonderful things can be done. Every game series has its lovers and haters, nobody can say their series is flawless, someone will always hate it and someone will always love it. If NiGHTS 3 was handled the way NiGHTS JoD -SHOULD- have been then i think it could be a beautiful and rewarding game. It doesn't mean JoD all over again (for those of you who think it was terrible), NiGHTS isn't Sonic.

That's exactly my point.

[viperxmns]

I agree with the notion that it would make complete sense to get NiD ported first, before contemplating a third game. But I would hope Iizuka would take our thoughts to heart as to what should go into the third game. That'd be great. And Sega needs to treat the game with the proper respect.

[iLLViLLAiN]

I'm just happy that someone from SEGA is mentioning NiGHTS again. When the magazine comes out, can someone scan the full article?

[DiGi Valentine]

I'm just happy that someone from SEGA is mentioning NiGHTS again. When the magazine comes out, can someone scan the full article?

I'm sure someone will. If not, if i can get my hands on it then i shall do so myself

[Beautiful Nightmare]

I'm just happy that someone from SEGA is mentioning NiGHTS again.

Me too. And that's enough for me, really.
I mean, independently of it being similar to NiD or JoD, just the release of another game is enough for me.

I was afraid SEGA was going to turn NiGHTS into a one-game-for-each-generation deal(a single game per decade, I mean), but it seems I was wrong(thank god).

NiGHTS deserves more attention from SEGA, damnit!

[InTheNightlight]

*tries to resist going into fanboy mode* *is unable to resist* ZOMGZOMGZOMGZOMG!!!

NiiiiGGHTSSS THREEEEEE!!

I love the new SEGA! Finally listening to their fanbase! SQUEEE!!!

I agree with DiGi. The main reason Sonic hasn't been selling well is because most of the modern fans never got to expeirience the originals, and I don't want that to happen to NiGHTS. Release a port, THEN make a third game.

BUT STILL NiGHTS 3! I'M GOING INTO OVERLOADED FANBOY MODE! W000000T! *explodes*

[Beautiful Nightmare]

*tries to resist going into fanboy mode* *is unable to resist* ZOMGZOMGZOMGZOMG!!!

NiiiiGGHTSSS THREEEEEE!!

I love the new SEGA! Finally listening to their fanbase! SQUEEE!!!

I agree with DiGi. The main reason Sonic hasn't been selling well is because most of the modern fans never got to expeirience the originals, and I don't want that to happen to NiGHTS. Release a port, THEN make a third game.

BUT STILL NiGHTS 3! I'M GOING INTO OVERLOADED FANBOY MODE! W000000T! *explodes*

Calm down. He just said he would like to make another NiGHTS, not that he/they will make it, for sure. Nothing is confirmed yet.

A statement about the possibility of a new game being made, isn't guarantee of it actually happening.
It's too soon yet for you, to have an "overloaded fanboy mode".

[Nemoide]

Indeed. TBH, this isn't much of news to me. I used to be a hardcore fan of Commander Keen - an old PC game series by Id Software. The main creator, Tom Hall, left the company but always maintained that he would like to make another Keen game. A decade goes by and Activision made a terrible Gameboy Color sequel on the cheap, with no effort or fan-input. Nearly another decade later and Tom Hall has still not had the chance to make another Commander Keen game... and now the property is mostly forgotten and Hall has fallen from his earlier game-designer "hot shot" status.

I like to think NiGHTS has more of a future than Commander Keen. But I don't expect much until I hear actual announcements, rather than vague desires.

[Noctourne Wonderland]

Indeed. TBH, this isn't much of news to me. I used to be a hardcore fan of Commander Keen - an old PC game series by Id Software. The main creator, Tom Hall, left the company but always maintained that he would like to make another Keen game. A decade goes by and Activision made a terrible Gameboy Color sequel on the cheap, with no effort or fan-input. Nearly another decade later and Tom Hall has still not had the chance to make another Commander Keen game... and now the property is mostly forgotten and Hall has fallen from his earlier game-designer "hot shot" status.

I like to think NiGHTS has more of a future than Commander Keen. But I don't expect much until I hear actual announcements, rather than vague desires.

Coming off of JoD, the idea of a new game so soon is a good sign. I imagine Sega would be more likely to do something with NiGHTS while he's still in people's heads, more or less.

[InTheNightlight]

Calm down. He just said he would like to make another NiGHTS, not that he/they will make it, for sure. Nothing is confirmed yet.

A statement about the possibility of a new game being made, isn't guarantee of it actually happening.
It's too soon yet for you, to have an "overloaded fanboy mode".

I know, but just the thought that they're considering it sends me into fanboy mode...

[joanatrex]

first i was like "Nights 3? NIGHTS 3!?!?! OMG NIGHTS 3!!!!!!!!!!11!11!1

I just hope jackle is in it *Goes fangirl mode WITH LEVEL POWER OVER 9000*
he has enough fans to reapear in a game

[iLLViLLAiN]

I'm sure someone will. If not, if i can get my hands on it then i shall do so myself

Good to know.

Indeed. TBH, this isn't much of news to me. I used to be a hardcore fan of Commander Keen - an old PC game series by Id Software. The main creator, Tom Hall, left the company but always maintained that he would like to make another Keen game. A decade goes by and Activision made a terrible Gameboy Color sequel on the cheap, with no effort or fan-input. Nearly another decade later and Tom Hall has still not had the chance to make another Commander Keen game... and now the property is mostly forgotten and Hall has fallen from his earlier game-designer "hot shot" status.

I like to think NiGHTS has more of a future than Commander Keen. But I don't expect much until I hear actual announcements, rather than vague desires.

Sometimes it is best to expect the worst before you expect anything good. There are a lot of game series out there that are ignored by their creators but not by their fans. It's sad really but all too often that's how things are. Off the top of my head I can point at the Earthbound and Shenmue fanbase as a good example of this.

[andersam]

I agree with the whole "Release the orginal game first" thing. I came into the fanbase shortly before JOD came out, and right now I'd be more willing to play NiD then to try a NiGHTS 3.

[Musashi_HUmar]

I'm kinda nervous about Iizuka-san handling a new NiGHTS game, though. I mean all he's done lately is put out a bunch of bad Sonic games with plots from stupid fanfictions. Then take into consideration how he rushed JoD. It's all about the money any more. The reason NiD was so good was that it was made to save and support the Saturn. I don't feel Sega has really put out anything good since the early 2000's. They just don't have the heart any more. Back in the 90's and early 2000's, they had consoles to support and tried harder. Now they're just trying to stay afloat by selling as many Sonic games as possible. Even if Iizuka-san wasn't handling NiGHTS 3, I'd be nervous anyway because of the way present day Sega and Sonic Team are.

[Noctourne Wonderland]

I'm kinda nervous about Iizuka-san handling a new NiGHTS game, though. I mean all he's done lately is put out a bunch of bad Sonic games with plots from stupid fanfictions. Then take into consideration how he rushed JoD. It's all about the money any more. The reason NiD was so good was that it was made to save and support the Saturn. I don't feel Sega has really put out anything good since the early 2000's. They just don't have the heart any more. Back in the 90's and early 2000's, they had consoles to support and tried harder. Now they're just trying to stay afloat by selling as many Sonic games as possible. Even if Iizuka-san wasn't handling NiGHTS 3, I'd be nervous anyway because of the way present day Sega and Sonic Team are.

Ignoring the production craziness and focusing on the game itself, what do you hate about JoD? I personally think of it as the one really good thing Sega has done that I've come into contact with post-Dreamcast that wasn't a re-release, and I wonder if there's a theme in their doward turn.

[Musashi_HUmar]

Ignoring the production craziness and focusing on the game itself, what do you hate about JoD? I personally think of it as the one really good thing Sega has done that I've come into contact with post-Dreamcast that wasn't a re-release, and I wonder if there's a theme in their doward turn.

I'm upset that JoD wasn't given the kind of love and respect it should have been given. It was rushed and half finished at release. Personally, I feel that is a real insult to the fans that waited over a decade for a second NiGHTS game. The idea and intention behind JoD was good, but the end product was subpar. The cutscenes looked like they were still in development and the dialogue just ruined a lot of the magic for me. I liked NiD because of how simple it was. I mean hell, they even messed up NiD on the PS2 remake by taking out a good chunk of the CNiD stuff as well as 2 player battle mode. I honestly don't think Sega cares any more. Even if they did make a NiGHTS 3, it would probably have similar results as JoD and all the newer Sonic games. Hell, I bet the marketing for it would be really poor. NiD did so well the first time around because they marketed the crap out of it. I just don't have any confidence in present day Sega and Sonic Team because of the lack of love and care they have for their games these days. I just don't think a NiGHTS 3 would be a good idea.

[MORRiS1113]

Sigh. i really wanna do a rant right now, but its to early, and its NOT ABOUT NIGHTS, no. its more about the fans, but aside from them. NiGHTS 3? itd be cool, just dont be like the first one. i could and will probably explain later why that would be a bad idea if this game was beyond its rumor stages.

but ill quickly say about NiGHTS 3, that by now since we have 2 games. there is NOW a standard formula that NiGHTS fallows, my main worry is if it would stray too far away from it and or be to close where you might as well play one of the others.

[Penelopi]

I'm upset that JoD wasn't given the kind of love and respect it should have been given. It was rushed and half finished at release. Personally, I feel that is a real insult to the fans that waited over a decade for a second NiGHTS game. The idea and intention behind JoD was good, but the end product was subpar. The cutscenes looked like they were still in development and the dialogue just ruined a lot of the magic for me. I liked NiD because of how simple it was. I mean hell, they even messed up NiD on the PS2 remake by taking out a good chunk of the CNiD stuff as well as 2 player battle mode. I honestly don't think Sega cares any more. Even if they did make a NiGHTS 3, it would probably have similar results as JoD and all the newer Sonic games. Hell, I bet the marketing for it would be really poor. NiD did so well the first time around because they marketed the crap out of it. I just don't have any confidence in present day Sega and Sonic Team because of the lack of love and care they have for their games these days. I just don't think a NiGHTS 3 would be a good idea.

I don't think they should just let NiGHTS sit with only 2 games forever. I mean, who wants JoD to be the last impression everyone got? But I do believe Sega should not be allowed to handle NiGHTS 3 like JoD. An outside party should be given the rights to make it, or at least co-produce it. And that company should be big enough or skilled enough that Sega wouldn't want to suddenly cut off a project with them. Someone they wouldn't want to turn off for future co-ops by maltreatment like what they give to Sonic Team. Sumo I think would be a great candidate But I don't know if it's likely to happen.

[Nemoide]

If Sumo was to work on it, I want TRiPPY doing concept art!

[iLLViLLAiN]

I don't think they should just let NiGHTS sit with only 2 games forever. I mean, who wants JoD to be the last impression everyone got? But I do believe Sega should not be allowed to handle NiGHTS 3 like JoD. An outside party should be given the rights to make it, or at least co-produce it. And that company should be big enough or skilled enough that Sega wouldn't want to suddenly cut off a project with them. Someone they wouldn't want to turn off for future co-ops by maltreatment like what they give to Sonic Team. Sumo I think would be a great candidate But I don't know if it's likely to happen.

Wouldn't it be funny if PROPE got to make NiGHTS 3?

[Noctourne Wonderland]

I'm upset that JoD wasn't given the kind of love and respect it should have been given. It was rushed and half finished at release. Personally, I feel that is a real insult to the fans that waited over a decade for a second NiGHTS game. The idea and intention behind JoD was good, but the end product was subpar. The cutscenes looked like they were still in development and the dialogue just ruined a lot of the magic for me. I liked NiD because of how simple it was. I mean hell, they even messed up NiD on the PS2 remake by taking out a good chunk of the CNiD stuff as well as 2 player battle mode. I honestly don't think Sega cares any more. Even if they did make a NiGHTS 3, it would probably have similar results as JoD and all the newer Sonic games. Hell, I bet the marketing for it would be really poor. NiD did so well the first time around because they marketed the crap out of it. I just don't have any confidence in present day Sega and Sonic Team because of the lack of love and care they have for their games these days. I just don't think a NiGHTS 3 would be a good idea.

So the game's fine, you just don't like the production? They dialogue complaint I understand, but taking JoD on it's own, is it really a bad game?

If Sumo was to work on it, I want TRiPPY doing concept art!

Wouldn't it be funny if PROPE got to make NiGHTS 3?

I support these ideas.

[DiGi Valentine]

A lot of people will say "NiGHTS 3? But the Wii game sucked, you're destroying the franchise" but they're continuing to overlook certain key factors that are in place right now that weren't there before. And these factors can make all the difference.

For starters, this community wasn't as connected to SEGA as it has been recently. Back when JoD was happening i was a little younger and nieve in thinking SEGA would pull through, and my execution of that Project SEGA was not to the best of my ability.

Since then i've been putting myself and my loud mouth at SEGA constantly. Not to be a pain in the arse, but to show SEGA this fanbase and how passionate we really are about this series. And if they're thinking of continuing the series then they really need to be listening to us right about now. We're not as diverse in opinions as the Sonic fanbase so it will be easier to hit the mark with us. And when you hit the mark with the core fanbase then word of mouth does the rest.

JoD is nice in some ways, but i'd be lying if i said i wasn't disspointed with it. It certainly was nice in areas but not worth a decade of waiting. I know Iizuka's caught wind of the feedback for NiGHTS: Journey of Dreams. The reviews were not amazing, and they all seemed to focus on the same things - voice acting, too many gimmicks and not enough flight, chasing birds and sh!t etc. Iizuka can see clearly where it went wrong, we've all been saying the same thing in regards to it.

So why is Iizuka now talking about a NiGHTS 3? Because chances are high that it's because of us. From NiGHTS' absense in ASR, Iizuka must have been notified of that and saw our campaign running, making a couple of headlines and stuff. Now we're all about porting the original game and interviewing Naka san. Iizuka caught wind of this too, i know Naka had to contact him directly at one point when answering some of our questions.

The fact of the matter is here that Iizuka is now currently aware of what made JoD score so low. He also wants to try again because with JoD the upperheads at SEGA kept moving the project around and that didn't help development either. To top it ALL off, this community has been making a crazy amount of noise for such a small cult following within the last year. He's heard about us. From the interview they had with him during JoD's production right up until now with the Naka interview, Iizuka knows exactly where online the fanbase can be found. And it's here.

So, as of this moment, this community has never had it better. And before i totally write-off a NiGHTS 3 as a failure i would like to take my chances to see just how much this community is able to influence a third game.
5 years ago we were ignored. Now they're paying attention.

As i said, we're in a better position now than we've ever been. Sit tight and let's see what we can do.

[TRiPPY]

^All of the above = true. And that's all I can say about that.

There are definately a LOT of positive factors that you guys don't even know about that exist now that didn't exist when JoD was being made.

One thing though, I wouldn't call it NiGHTS 3, in the same way that I wouldn't have called Sonic 4- Sonic 4. Besides, JoD wasn't called NiGHTS 2 so at least we escaped that one XD;


Also I want to say thanks for the support of my work :-) If I was ever involved in any NiGHTS projects with whoever in the future I'd be damn sure to listen to the people who care. I owe you guys that much.

[Noctourne Wonderland]

Well put, both of you. NiGHTS Fans: We go there, now!

[The Exile]

I think a sequel would be awesome. It means they recognise NiGHTs as a game worth making sequels to, they can learn from their mistakes, if the sequel is decent it will make NiGHTs more popular and more likely to mean a re-release. It might even help bring Sega back from the brink of total defeat. One bad sequel doesn't mean the rest will be bad. Shining Force, for instance. I happened to like STHA and Shining Wisdom, but they were very different from the standard Shining Force model (well, okay, STHA was a lot like SITD...) and weren't as popular. Then there was Shining Force 3, which rocked in every way, and was exactly like the originals.

I'm a little biased towards sequels that are like the originals, by the way. I loved JoD - although it was but a shade of the Saturn game, it was an acceptable sequel to a game I've been waiting for a sequel to for a long, long time.

[viperxmns]

It's great that so many people liked JoD, but the point is that it could have been so much more. As much as JoD fans like it, I can't imagine they wouldn't have liked it even more if it was the game it was meant to be. The third game has to be that and more.

[DiGi Valentine]

Agreeing with what Viper is saying. If a third game does ever happen it will need to be a hit. We couldn't get away with another "meh ...it's ok" title. The original NiGHTS was loved by almost everyone who played it, with only a minority that said they didn't get it. It's because of those people who enjoyed it that the cult status occured in the first place, with outsiders becoming interested in this game we kept hyping about. JoD didn't do that, not even in the slightest. It may get it's own cult following a few years down the line but it ain't going to be happening right now and what we need right now is something solid to really cement NiGHTS' name on good ground.

If a third game ever happened it would need to be a success with us fans and then those reviewers. I don't think we would ever get another chance after a third game to rectify the mistakes made with JoD. It's a gamble, of course. What we really need is Iizuka and SEGA really paying attention to what is being said when/if they craft another title.

[MORRiS1113]

its gonna be a lot harder then just making it like the 1st and to meet expectations.
the vast majority of reviewers these days in short believe that if it doesn't have the fallowing 3, the game sucks
1. FPS
2. Blood
3. gore
4. optional (tits)
everyone's a critic, and you cant please em all. in fact I'm more then certain that half the reviewers on these game magazines haven't a clue.
Best example. a few months ago, when Clash of the Titans was in theaters, they mentioned it in Game Informer Magazine and said that "its gonna, or is nothing more then a God of War Rip off." Man, my cousin and I nearly keeled over from laughter, as this clown of a Reviewer had no Idea, that it was a Remake of the old eighties film.

that's only a taste of some of the trials we're dealing with, People with no clue of what their reviewing and hardly do research if any about the material it spawned from.

as for material itself, I'm sorry but Journey of Dreams didn't do anything wrong, OK it sorta changed how Ideya Works but its not like that really mattered a great deal. The overall Execution was poor. but JoD was NiGHTS Into Dreams just with More Levels (32>6) Any day. only worth mentioning complaints is its Wiimote Gimmick sucked, and NiGHTS had a very questionable voice which started a lot of controversy. and last, some minor graphical errors. AKA Owl's twitching feathers. so im just mind blown, what the hell did you guys want out of this game that you didn't get?
someone please share because I Don't get it, and I'm one of the original cult fallowing fans.

But i hope that if NiGHTS 3 or 2 if you prefer. gets a go ahead, id like to have its developers be professional and part of the Original Sonic Team. and
not one built off newbies or Fan bases,because its just a way that will probably result in Disaster. Rarely does it work, and if it does its likely due to a bunch of failed experiments *COUGH*SONIC*COUGH* but there is always Hope. so lets all Hope for the best, and love what we get

[DiGi Valentine]

as for material itself, I'm sorry but Journey of Dreams didn't do anything wrong, OK it sorta changed how Ideya Works but its not like that really mattered a great deal. The overall Execution was poor. but JoD was NiGHTS Into Dreams just with More Levels (32>6) Any day.

Nope, sorry. That's a bit farfetched now.

NiGHTS into Dreams felt VERY different in terms of how the concept of time was against you in the game. JoD altered it to a point that it wasn't even the same threat anymore. That's where the game fell off and fans couldn't get to grips with how JoD played. It was different.

The thing with NiD was it taught you how to squeeze fun into every available second that you were dualized with NiGHTS. The game was crafted with the point of collecting the Ideya's in the level and if you wanted to further challenge yourself you would relap the stage and chase time down to the very last second to get those scores. JoD butchered that concept by removing the Ideya goal and have you chasing birds instead. You were no longer trying to chase down every last available second you had when dualized, you were now responsible to chase after a solid object moving around the level. And once you had you could no longer relap.

The flow of the game play was MAJORLY changed. And when the flow of gameplay is changed hugely like that it then changes the overall feel of the game itself.

And i highly doubt you could count 32 levels over 6 when everything outside the flight levels was gimmicks and unneeded fluff that derailed the whole point of playing NiGHTS in the first place.

I really don't think you should be coming in here and asking this community what we wanted from a NiGHTS game when you yourself have clearly overlooked one of the main fundamentals that structured the experience of NiGHTS in the first place.

[MORRiS1113]

Nope, sorry. That's a bit farfetched now.

NiGHTS into Dreams felt VERY different in terms of how the concept of time was against you in the game. JoD altered it to a point that it wasn't even the same threat anymore. That's where the game fell off and fans couldn't get to grips with how JoD played. It was different.

The thing with NiD was it taught you how to squeeze fun into every available second that you were dualized with NiGHTS. The game was crafted with the point of collecting the Ideya's in the level and if you wanted to further challenge yourself you would relap the stage and chase time down to the very last second to get those scores. JoD butchered that concept by removing the Ideya goal and have you chasing birds instead. You were no longer trying to chase down every last available second you had when dualized, you were now responsible to chase after a solid object moving around the level. And once you had you could no longer relap.

The flow of the game play was MAJORLY changed. And when the flow of gameplay is changed hugely like that it then changes the overall feel of the game itself.

And i highly doubt you could count 32 levels over 6 when everything outside the flight levels was gimmicks and unneeded fluff that derailed the whole point of playing NiGHTS in the first place.

I really don't think you should be coming in here and asking this community what we wanted from a NiGHTS game when you yourself have clearly overlooked one of the main fundamentals that structured the experience of NiGHTS in the first place.

i can see and understand your views. and i haven't overlooked NiGHTS race against the clock element. I admit its not one of my favorite parts of the game. I do like a challenge every now and again, and often do test my skills against that bloody thing, but i also like to cruise and explore.
NiD is pretty much forcing you to be on your toes the entire time, its hard to savor moments for a lot of ppl when your in a hurry, if in the middle of flight you lose time, you fall out of NiGHTS, lose whatever score you had planned to get, now your on foot again, which at some times you would think would be one good way to explore but no, time is still on your behind, you have just enough time needed to probably collect a bit of what you dropped and find your way back to NiGHTS before those... whatever they're called, time clock ghosts come and get you. id like to savor moments, but being rushed is hardly helpful, if you loved that way of experience, not saying it was horrible, then power to ya.

the levels in JoD for most levels gave you more free time, to do whatever, you didn't have to go for NiGHTS right away, but u would eventually. the essence of Time is still there, just far more merciful which is not a bad thing. the other levels. idk about you or other people, but i personally love the forest exploration level as Helen, the music and the experience of being in the woods like that has a feeling to it that i haven't felt in a game sense the Sega Genesis days. best example would be Streets of Rage 2, which is probably even more odd XD, Octapaw.. sure ill let you have that one... but there were other interesting levels. taking a step away from the race against time and being more innovative.

if you wanted some levels where your have that experience of having your time be your worst enemy, that's not to much to ask.
but just asking for the same thing is like the ppl who want a remake of FF7, its prettier and looks brand new and like nothing ever seen.
but all in all. ITS THE SAME THING. and thats what the vast majority of gamers, Don't want to see in a sequel. I can definitely see your point. and
maybe should a 3rd game be considered. perhaps they'll fix their mistakes and add some of that old element back. and also keep some of the new.
its a good combo. but don't hate change.

[viperxmns]

To wit, there are many elements that JoD has that can make it feel more 'complete' than NiD; things like being able to exit or restart a level from the pause menu (something the PS2 NiD has to a lesser extent, I believe), being able to fight Nightmaren as a standalone mission, extra 2P modes, getting bonus points for doing tricks through rings is cool, the concept of a lot of the new missions was sound (just needs a stronger scoring element a lot of the time, something that keeps you in the mission longer), where NiGHTS was concerned, and the idea to infuse more story bits is admirable (though a different approach may have been preferable.. still like the idea of Storybook style cut scenes). And a lot of the new graphic designs are prettier (still like those calligraphic score emblems). These sorts of things should certainly carry over to the next game.

In turn, a lot of what is wrong with JoD stems from the removal of elements from NiD, something a sequel should never do. A sequel should build up gameplay, not take away things that made the original game fun. The fact that NiGHTS can't air brake is weird; there's no stunt ribbon, no true head to head with Reala, the kids being unable to explore the levels and do their triple jumps like before.. we've gone over these things so many times but it always bears repeating, since all these things are such easy answers in regard to what needs to be done to make the third game more satisfying.

Since Iizuka and Co. have feedback now, maybe they can realize they didn't need to change so much of the gameplay for JoD. They don't need to fear restoring the Ideya Capture missions from NiD, since in this case we kinda want more of the same. Instead, they should play around with adding new twists to the classic style play. Maybe have missions where the Captures require something different to overload them. Maybe you have to bust different things, in different ways. Something new with the rings. Not every level even needs to play the exact same way. There's sooo much that can be toyed around with the basic structure of NiGHTS gameplay that has yet to be addressed.

[MORRiS1113]

To wit, there are many elements that JoD has that can make it feel more 'complete' than NiD; things like being able to exit or restart a level from the pause menu (something the PS2 NiD has to a lesser extent, I believe), being able to fight Nightmaren as a standalone mission, extra 2P modes, getting bonus points for doing tricks through rings is cool, the concept of a lot of the new missions was sound (just needs a stronger scoring element a lot of the time, something that keeps you in the mission longer), where NiGHTS was concerned, and the idea to infuse more story bits is admirable (though a different approach may have been preferable.. still like the idea of Storybook style cut scenes). And a lot of the new graphic designs are prettier (still like those calligraphic score emblems). These sorts of things should certainly carry over to the next game.

In turn, a lot of what is wrong with JoD stems from the removal of elements from NiD, something a sequel should never do. A sequel should build up gameplay, not take away things that made the original game fun. The fact that NiGHTS can't air brake is weird; there's no stunt ribbon, no true head to head with Reala, the kids being unable to explore the levels and do their triple jumps like before.. we've gone over these things so many times but it always bears repeating, since all these things are such easy answers in regard to what needs to be done to make the third game more satisfying.

Since Iizuka and Co. have feedback now, maybe they can realize they didn't need to change so much of the gameplay for JoD. They don't need to fear restoring the Ideya Capture missions from NiD, since in this case we kinda want more of the same. Instead, they should play around with adding new twists to the classic style play. Maybe have missions where the Captures require something different to overload them. Maybe you have to bust different things, in different ways. Something new with the rings. Not every level even needs to play the exact same way. There's sooo much that can be toyed around with the basic structure of NiGHTS gameplay that has yet to be addressed.

yeah, they can be very creative. i wouldnt want every level to be a repeat, it was nice for the first game but that was so long ago, we can do better now. i have to keep this short.

oh btw what do u mean no true head to head with Reala? i thought the final battle you got with him was pretty head to head.

[viperxmns]

Not head to head in the same sense as in NiD though; there, you fight him directly, with drill dashes and Paraloops. In JoD it's less direct because you only can toss the Mare Balloons at each other (adding the option to still be able to hit each other manually would be cool). I think the balloon toss can stay as a 2P match option, but nothing beats fighting each other with no barriers in between. Again, puzzle elements or other elements can be added to mix it up, but NiGHTS and Reala should be able to attack each other directly.