24 replies to this topic

[Level 99]

http://content.usato...-ps3-xbox-360/1

Okay, so now they're porting Dreamcast games to PS3/360. This is great great GREAT news! I WANT SEAMAN BLARGHKAHKSHFYRHAGHGH!

Alright, enough out of me. This looks like Sega's doing what it does best and is hedging it's bets with porting old sold games to a new system. I can get behind this. HOWEVER, if they're able to do this, they damn well are able to port NiD original or PS2 remake over onto the same platforms.

I'm excited to see what other games they pick. Maybe we'll get lucky...?

[viperxmns]

lol my friend had Seaman.. rather ..amusing.. title.

Saturn games must really be that difficult to emulate, as it's now practically the only console not to be ported anywhere else. Now even the Dreamcast is a go for downloadable. The PS2 NiD certainly must be portable to the PS3 at least; someone needs a slap in the head somewhere to get it done.

[Zero-Shift]

I hope this extends to the entire library and not just games made by Sega. That would allow ports like 3rd Strike, JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, Power Stone games, and others.

I heard the Saturn games are ridiculously hard to port because of how the system hardware rendered the graphics of it's games.

[Nemoide]

I approve, although I won't likely be buying games I already own, like Sonic Adventure or Crazy Taxi. However my Dreamcast microphone is busted, so I would get Seaman...
I would most like to see Ecco: Defender of the Future. And of non-Sega games, Power Stone 2.

I've also heard that Saturn is very difficult to emulate. But NiGHTS on Live Arcade would be THE BEST! Especially if it had fancy HD graphics...

[Purge]

Space Channel 5 Part 2 with HD graphics would make me cry manly tears.

[viperxmns]

I've heard something bad about Crazy Taxi's port; there's music rights issues so the game won't include the original Offspring music and the like.. though if you can set a custom soundtrack then that fixes it completely.

[Noctourne Wonderland]

I wonder if this would delay the ability of getting NiGHTS ported until after the Dreamcast games.

[viperxmns]

Well.. 1Up has reviewed the XBLA version of SA.. and since apparently none of the game's glitches were fixed, they gave it a D. http://www.1up.com/d...age?cId=3181366

Ulp.

http://xboxlive.ign..../1120409p1.html

[iLLViLLAiN]

I'm kind of disappointed in SEGA with how they handled Sonic Adventure. Mostly because it's not the Dreamcast version but instead the PC version. They'll probably do the same with Crazy Taxi. Maybe I took what they said wrong and they actually meant they were porting games from the Dreamcast days rather than porting Dreamcast games.

[Noctourne Wonderland]

What are the differences between the Dreamcast and PC Versions? Is the Dreamcast itself too hard to port?

[Dreamer#96]

What are the differences between the Dreamcast and PC Versions? Is the Dreamcast itself too hard to port?

Well, PC games seem to port easily over to the Xbox 360. So, for the most part, any Dreamcast games that were on the PC will probably be ported with a few changes to make it seem like the Dreamcast version, Like the Sonic Adventure Port. With that, they changed the title screen, and anything with the DX logo in it to the Dreamcast version, and with a few other things, such as a consistent 60 fps, draw distance, leaderboards, etc. So I wouldn't be surprised if all the "Dreamcast" Ports are PC ports.

[Nemoide]

I wasn't even aware there was a PC version. The screenshots look pretty different from I remember, it looks much shinier?
I should replay my copy of SA for Dreamcast. I've been meaning to play it again for years... I remember loving it though.

At least Crazy Taxi still holds up by modern gameplay standards IMO.

[Level 99]

I was complaining about this on my twitter earlier today. They way Sega handled this port is utter rubbish. I thought they were getting back to the hearts of the fans, but instead they're doing the same thing: cashing a quick buck off of nostalgia.

Here are some point of facts:

1) The original Sonic Adventure was ahead of its time in terms of graphics. The visuals were astounding, but unfortunately they haven't aged well. Sega has not changed these one bit from their "original" versions, including not bothering to add a widescreen display. Without widescreen the game doesn't even qualify for current HD resolutions.

2) Original here more-than-likely indicates the PC port. Should have seemed suspicious to me then but it didn't, that they picked the two dreamcast games with highest profile PC ports. PC port -> 360 port is an extremely easy conversion, considering that the dev kit for 360 XBL games runs on Windows from what I have heard. This should have made it EVEN EASIER to add new features and improvements to the game, not to mention...

3) The PC port was the DX version. Sega ripped the DX part out of the initial release and are charing to have it, calling it the DX DLC....really, Sega? This is basically the epitome of nickel-and-diming the nostalgia out of gamers. No wonder the reviewers are all spiteful: they had such respect for the company back when the game came out, and had their hopes rekindled by a re-released on current systems, only to have it crushed by a lazy port job and a nickel-and-diming scheme to get the entire purchase. Not to mention...

4) The Dreamcast version, gamecube version, and the PC port are still pretty widely available. Unlike Saturn games, Dreamcasts are still easily found and the PC port can be played on any modern PC. The gamecube version plays on Gamecube and Wii, where an HD remake isn't feasible. So this digital no-frills release doesn't even take advantage of the platform besides the digital distribution, thereby cutting out the cost of manufacturing physical discs.

5) Look at the decline in game scores over the years. The original game scored fairly well when it came out, because it came out ahead of its time. The Gamecube and PC ports added small things and was essentially the same game, and didn't get as good reviewed because it was getting stale amongst much more fierce competition. Now, besides the retro value, the game doesn't hold a candle in its current state. It is definitively lacking in what current appeal is and, to be completely honest, what is expected from re-releases on PSN/XBL these days.

I mean, FFS, the Super Puzzle Fighter 2 Turbo rerelease had all the bonus features from the "X for Matchmaking Service" version that came out on Dreamcast years ago, and the visuals look ridiculous because they cleaned up. The netcode is nice on that as well, allowing for advantage to be taken of the matchmaking services on the game networks.

I'm not trying to crush anyone's nostalgia trip but I don't think it's worth the investment for this port. I need to delve deeper into it 1st person tomorrow, so I will post more thoughts then. In the mean time, color me a disillusioned gamer.

[APSJ]

Played the demo for Sonic Adventure XBLA earlier today. It runs more smoothly than it ever did on Gamecube. And there's a leader board option so all the competitive online high score play from the early days of the Dreamcast original is back kind of.

If anyone was expecting more to be added to this port, you're expecting WAY too much out of SEGA.

Still, considering what I've seen and read, it's great that there's a PC version of NiGHTS and Microsoft requires all XBLA games to have leader boards...

[Level 99]

If anyone was expecting more to be added to this port, you're expecting WAY too much out of SEGA.

Still, considering what I've seen and read, it's great that there's a PC version of NiGHTS and Microsoft requires all XBLA games to have leader boards...

From what I've seen from Sega lately, there have been many instances where it's like night and day on decisions regarding a single game. It's almost like a two headed ogre where one makes a good choice and the other makes a bad. Then the proceed to argue who's breath stinks more and why they have trouble with girls, but I digress. Example: Sonic Unleashed - daytime levels were apparently great, nighttime levels needless filler.

I'll argue the same deal with the port of Sonic Adventure: great to bring a game that came out on the cutting edge of "future gaming" (basically the jump from 1st-gen rough 3d visuals and gameplay to 2nd-gen, where it was more refined and much better looking) into the modern market. It has nostalgia value and is an example of a 3d Sonic game that is, at the very least, better on-average than what's been out for the last 4 years (ignoring the Sonic games on GBA and DS, which were awesome and not 3d). However, they didn't treat it with the same love that they did back then. Is it wrong to expect a little consistency from a game company? I guess not.

Also, that PC version of NiGHTS, while still under speculation, was more-than-likely the net-distributed version emulated on a Sega-modified version of GiriGiri:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GiriGiri

I'm intrigued to see what, if any, other games Sega plans to bring out after Sonic Adventure/Crazy Taxi. Like I said, those are both Dreamcast games that had PC ports. Just for fun, I found a list of Sega PC games and narrowed down the list to show all games from the Saturn/Dreamcast era that had native PC ports. List is below (source is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sega_PC):

* Baku Baku Animal
* Bug!
* Bug Too!
* Crazy Taxi
* Daytona USA: Championship Circuit Edition
* Daytona USA Deluxe
* Enemy Zero (4CD)
* Hundred Swords
* Last Bronx
* Manx TT SuperBike
* NBA Action 98
* Panzer Dragoon
* Sega Bass Fishing
* Virtua Tennis
* Sega GT
* Sega Marine Fishing
* Sega Rally (CD)
* Sega Rally 2 (CD)
* Sega Touring Car Championship
* Sega Worldwide Soccer
* Sky Target
* Sonic 3D Blast
* Sonic Adventure DX: Director's Cut (2CD)
* Sonic R (CD)
* The House of the Dead (CD)
* The House of the Dead 2 (CD)
* The Typing of the Dead (CD)
* Virtua Fighter (CD)
* Virtua Fighter 2 (CD)
* Virtua Cop (CD)
* Virtua Cop 2 (CD)
* Virtual On

If they choose more that are on this list, we have much more reason to suspect that they're just doing ports of the PC versions.

[iLLViLLAiN]

I saw the trailer for Crazy Taxi last night. It sported the new soundtrack but the song they put on the trailer was very forgettable song. Every time I try to remember what the new song sounded like I can only hear "YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH!" I can get used to it but it's certainly not great. By the way, I read somewhere that Crazy Taxi's PC version had new songs so I wonder if they're just using those songs from the PC port.

[Level 99]

I saw the trailer for Crazy Taxi last night. It sported the new soundtrack but the song they put on the trailer was very forgettable song. Every time I try to remember what the new song sounded like I can only hear "YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH YEAH!" I can get used to it but it's certainly not great. By the way, I read somewhere that Crazy Taxi's PC version had new songs so I wonder if they're just using those songs from the PC port.

Can you link me to the trailer you saw? I have the PC version so I'll be able to check and compare.

Funny story about the PC version: the music was simply a few MP3s all generically titled. You could put your own MP3s in the music directory, rename them to replace the ones already in there, and BOOM! Custom racing music.

[iLLViLLAiN]

Can you link me to the trailer you saw? I have the PC version so I'll be able to check and compare.

Funny story about the PC version: the music was simply a few MP3s all generically titled. You could put your own MP3s in the music directory, rename them to replace the ones already in there, and BOOM! Custom racing music.

I just found it at SEGA's Japanese YouTube page.

[Dreamer#96]

I really doubt this, considering the quality of the port, but they seem to be planning some add ons for the Sonic Adventure port, I wonder if they could somehow remake the downloads that were for download on the Dreamcast. That would be amazing, considering I never got to download them when they were available back then.

I know it probably won't happen, but I can dream, can't I?

[Nemoide]

If memory serves, the downloads for Dreamcast were basically sponsored contest time-attack things. I remember it being mostly adding ads for Nokia phones and letting you compare times for finishing a little level. I don't think you're missing much.

[Level 99]

http://www.1up.com/d...age?cId=3181366

"This Sonic Adventure is somewhat based on the enhanced GameCube and PC port, Sonic Adventure DX. That version featured higher resolutions, slightly improved character models, and some other bonus minigames, but here, the "DX" has been stripped from the title, and you get only the superficial additions to the game...except the PC version's resolutions: This only runs in a 4:3 window that can't be stretched at all. "

I think that explains it all quite clearly.

Also, iLLViLLAiN, I think that song was just overlaid on the video because I never once heard any of the games SFX. I think even in demo replays, you could hear the car wheels screeching. I'll install my PC version sometime over the weekend to double-check, however that song in the video was neither in the Dreamcast version nor the PC version.

[Level 99]

I couldn't stop, friends...

I couldn't leave it to ambiguity, so I went and researched some screenshots of the PC version vs the recently released XBLA release. My findings were pretty shocking...

Check this Neogaf post for some screenies of Sonic Adventure DX running on an average PC, customized to run at the PC equivalent of 720p (1280x720)

http://www.neogaf.co...p;postcount=131

Here's the one we'll use for comparison, since I found somewhat close to it online for XBLA as well:


Sonic Adventure DX on PC (720p)

Note that, by default, the PC version can't run in widescreen. However, there's a configuration utility you can find that allows for custom resolutions, so the PC version is technically capable of widescreen and HD resolutions. And for supernerds, notice the crisp clarity of the textures both near and far, as well as how far along you can see (the draw distance is quite good here).

Now here we have the recent XBLA port, which is supposedly based on the PC port, which itself was also based on the Gamecube port. Note that this is running boxed in (not widescreen) and at an internal resolution of 640x480 (known as 480p, not an HD resolution):



Blur-tastic. Look how fuzzy it is compared to the other one! And the perspective is incredibly narrow compared to the widescreen one. If you look at the bridge, you see it start on one side of the tree but on the other side it just disappears, showing a much shorter draw distance.

...

So it's worse than just a slapdash port job: they literally put out ZERO EFFORT to put this thing on the 360.

/me eats own beard.

Edit: I know a lot of people still enjoy this game for nostalgic reasons, and I don't fault them. I am simply flabergasted with the absolute laziness shown in how Sega is treating a port of one of its beloved properties. From back when Sonic still had considerable credit for being edgy, and this treatment is supposed to instill faith in how they're doing things these days. *sigh*

[Noctourne Wonderland]

I wasn't even aware there was a PC version. The screenshots look pretty different from I remember, it looks much shinier?
I should replay my copy of SA for Dreamcast. I've been meaning to play it again for years... I remember loving it though.

At least Crazy Taxi still holds up by modern gameplay standards IMO.

DX is very shiny. I don't really know why...

1) The original Sonic Adventure was ahead of its time in terms of graphics. The visuals were astounding, but unfortunately they haven't aged well. Sega has not changed these one bit from their "original" versions, including not bothering to add a widescreen display. Without widescreen the game doesn't even qualify for current HD resolutions.

Do ports ever update graphics?

3) The PC port was the DX version. Sega ripped the DX part out of the initial release and are charing to have it, calling it the DX DLC....really, Sega? This is basically the epitome of nickel-and-diming the nostalgia out of gamers. No wonder the reviewers are all spiteful: they had such respect for the company back when the game came out, and had their hopes rekindled by a re-released on current systems, only to have it crushed by a lazy port job and a nickel-and-diming scheme to get the entire purchase. Not to mention...

Good old Sega.

5) Look at the decline in game scores over the years. The original game scored fairly well when it came out, because it came out ahead of its time. The Gamecube and PC ports added small things and was essentially the same game, and didn't get as good reviewed because it was getting stale amongst much more fierce competition. Now, besides the retro value, the game doesn't hold a candle in its current state. It is definitively lacking in what current appeal is and, to be completely honest, what is expected from re-releases on PSN/XBL these days.

That's why Sega marketed it as a port, not a remake. Ports exsist mainly for retro value for those who didn't get it the first time aroung. Had Sega marketed it as a remake/new game then done nothing, there would be grounds for anger. It's the same game; the score shouldn't even be considered for change.

[Dreamer#96]

If memory serves, the downloads for Dreamcast were basically sponsored contest time-attack things. I remember it being mostly adding ads for Nokia phones and letting you compare times for finishing a little level. I don't think you're missing much.

Yeah, I know that, but wasn't there some other downloads, like some extra tracks for Twinkle Circuit, some holiday changes in certain levels, some special Chao, etc.?

[Noctourne Wonderland]

Yeah, I know that, but wasn't there some other downloads, like some extra tracks for Twinkle Circuit, some holiday changes in certain levels, some special Chao, etc.?

I don't know about the original Sonic Adventure (Twinkle Circut tracks sounds about right), but SA2 had holliday themes for 2 player mode, with Santa suits and Halloween costumes.