38 replies to this topic

[bunniangel]

Ok this might be my only post as im not an expert on NiGHTS as you guys are...but I wanted to (just for my sake) post my JOD theory. From the podcasts and what I know...here is my theory of the JOD story...if it is a sequel...and forgive me if i sound like a total idiot...and i dont know where Helen and Claris would fit in...but based on the if the new kids and Claris/Elliot are in it...

What was told/known:
Kevin wants to be a football star.
Kevin has father problems.
Kevin is tricked into helping Wizeman.
Elliot was into basketball.
Elliot helped defeat Wizeman in the first game.
Puffy represented Elliots mom.
There is a new Puffy-like boss. (which to me looks like a guy rather than a girl)
Splash garden is Elliot's Dreamscape.

My theory:
Kevin wants to be a football star...so what if he has father problems because his father wanted him to be a basketball star?
and what better way for Wizeman to get back at Elliot for what he did in the first game then through his son? That would explain if Kevin could dream in Elliots dreamscape...and the puffy-like boss...a representation of Kevins Father (Elliot). Would explain both the new boss and Puffy looking alike. And why would NiGHTS help the new kids (or Helen maybe if she is good) because stuff is happening to the kids (now grown) that he helped before. With that there would be 2 dreamers...but still you have Claris and Elliot in it.

Hey its probably far from the truth but it sounded good

[whatabout_paul]

Nice first post, I really like this idea. It's possible and would explain how Claris and Elliot end up in this game while still having two new kids. The only problem I see is the new town which does look quite a bit different to Twin Seeds. It's not unfeasible to think that Claris and Elliot with their kids could have moved towns but it’s something to think about.

[Q-Lok]

Interesting idea... I'll have to think about that a bit...

[Curiosity Inc.]

Ok this might be my only post as im not an expert on NiGHTS as you guys are...but I wanted to (just for my sake) post my JOD theory. From the podcasts and what I know...here is my theory of the JOD story...if it is a sequel...and forgive me if i sound like a total idiot...and i dont know where Helen and Claris would fit in...but based on the if the new kids and Claris/Elliot are in it...

What was told/known:
Kevin wants to be a football star.
Kevin has father problems.
Kevin is tricked into helping Wizeman.
Elliot was into basketball.
Elliot helped defeat Wizeman in the first game.
Puffy represented Elliots mom.
There is a new Puffy-like boss. (which to me looks like a guy rather than a girl)
Splash garden is Elliot's Dreamscape.

My theory:
Kevin wants to be a football star...so what if he has father problems because his father wanted him to be a basketball star?
and what better way for Wizeman to get back at Elliot for what he did in the first game then through his son? That would explain if Kevin could dream in Elliots dreamscape...and the puffy-like boss...a representation of Kevins Father (Elliot). Would explain both the new boss and Puffy looking alike. And why would NiGHTS help the new kids (or Helen maybe if she is good) because stuff is happening to the kids (now grown) that he helped before. With that there would be 2 dreamers...but still you have Claris and Elliot in it.

Hey its probably far from the truth but it sounded good

An interesting theory, but I don't completely buy it.

By your own admission, this theory doesn't account for how Claris and Helen fit in. That's a pretty big hole.

Also -- and please pardon me for not listening to the podcasts -- are you sure that Puffy represents Elliot's mom? Or does Puffy represent the Great Mother archetype? Two completely different things there.

Finally, it is my opinion that NiGHTS did not help Claris and Elliot because "they were good." NiGHTS as I see him/her is a benevolent trickster -- neither good nor evil. NiGHTS simply helped the original two kids because they had Red Ideya and were therefore capable of setting NiGHTS free. So, for your theory to work, Ideya and dreamscapes would have to be genetic. I'm just not convinced that's the case.

The simple truth is that we don't know enough. So, if I were you, I'd wait a while before coming up with story theories.

[bunniangel]

An interesting theory, but I don't completely buy it.

By your own admission, this theory doesn't account for how Claris and Helen fit in. That's a pretty big hole.

Also -- and please pardon me for not listening to the podcasts -- are you sure that Puffy represents Elliot's mom? Or does Puffy represent the Great Mother archetype? Two completely different things there.

Finally, it is my opinion that NiGHTS did not help Claris and Elliot because "they were good." NiGHTS as I see him/her is a benevolent trickster -- neither good nor evil. NiGHTS simply helped the original two kids because they had Red Ideya and were therefore capable of setting NiGHTS free. So, for your theory to work, Ideya and dreamscapes would have to be genetic. I'm just not convinced that's the case.

The simple truth is that we don't know enough. So, if I were you, I'd wait a while before coming up with story theories.

I posted this as just my thoughts and I can think about possibilities if i want to. I didnt say it was a fool proof theory alright? It was just my thoughts on it... but i guess to you my thoughts arent welcome. Sorry if i offended you.

[Kori]

I considered the possibility of Kevin and Helen having such a connection to Elliott and Claris as well. It is definitely interesting to note that they are sharing similar dreamscapes - whether or not the new kids are just passing through, who can say?

Of course, Sega hasn't confirmed if the new kids know each other already. They could be complete strangers to begin with, so that would rule out BOTH of them being Claris and Elliott's children... hmm, tough to say! But it's fun to speculate, if only to see how close we can get to the actual thing when all becomes official, eh? :3

[Wrenreele]

Proof Puffy represents Elliots mother?

....
Or is that fan speculation? If so, don't put it under things that are known, cause I haven't really heard puffy representing elliots mother.
....
In fact, I've never heard anything about the kids parents.

But, when I first heard of the new kids, I thought they could be the spawns of Elliot and/or Claris. But, I actually doubt it...

[T.K. The Hedgehog]

Ok this might be my only post as im not an expert on NiGHTS as you guys are...but I wanted to (just for my sake) post my JOD theory. From the podcasts and what I know...here is my theory of the JOD story...if it is a sequel...and forgive me if i sound like a total idiot...and i dont know where Helen and Claris would fit in...but based on the if the new kids and Claris/Elliot are in it...

What was told/known:
Kevin wants to be a football star.
Kevin has father problems.
Kevin is tricked into helping Wizeman.
Elliot was into basketball.
Elliot helped defeat Wizeman in the first game.
Puffy represented Elliots mom.
There is a new Puffy-like boss. (which to me looks like a guy rather than a girl)
Splash garden is Elliot's Dreamscape.

My theory:
Kevin wants to be a football star...so what if he has father problems because his father wanted him to be a basketball star?
and what better way for Wizeman to get back at Elliot for what he did in the first game then through his son? That would explain if Kevin could dream in Elliots dreamscape...and the puffy-like boss...a representation of Kevins Father (Elliot). Would explain both the new boss and Puffy looking alike. And why would NiGHTS help the new kids (or Helen maybe if she is good) because stuff is happening to the kids (now grown) that he helped before. With that there would be 2 dreamers...but still you have Claris and Elliot in it.

Hey its probably far from the truth but it sounded good

wait...theres a Kevin?! 0_o where have I been?!

Any links?

sorry for being un-informed about JoD Im still grasping the fact that its not going to be on the Dreamcast ;-;

[Curiosity Inc.]

I posted this as just my thoughts and I can think about possibilities if i want to. I didnt say it was a fool proof theory alright? It was just my thoughts on it... but i guess to you my thoughts arent welcome. Sorry if i offended you.

*sigh* No, I apologize to you.

I'm used to talking on a message board with Transformer fanboys. Over there, this kind of language is civilized discourse. It's hard for me to remember that the TF fanboys have far thicker skin and far shaper tongues than any NiGHTS fan here (no offense).

Please bear with me as I try to find the right balance for this crowd.

Proof Puffy represents Elliots mother?

....
Or is that fan speculation? If so, don't put it under things that are known, cause I haven't really heard puffy representing elliots mother.
....
In fact, I've never heard anything about the kids parents.

But, when I first heard of the new kids, I thought they could be the spawns of Elliot and/or Claris. But, I actually doubt it...

Agreed. The idea that the sequel's heroes are the offspring of the original's heroes is way too cliche for a story of NiGHTS caliber.

As previously stated, I'm also skeptical that Puffy represents Elliot's mom. I just don't see any proof of it. Puffy may represent the Great Mother archetype, but that's a completely different thing.

[T.K. The Hedgehog]

I'm used to talking on a message board with Transformer fanboys.

I LOVE transformers! I go to the movie site all the Ti--on topic.

dude, Kevin is totally my life story.

[~Tsuki~]

Proof Puffy represents Elliots mother?

....
Or is that fan speculation? If so, don't put it under things that are known, cause I haven't really heard puffy representing elliots mother.
....
In fact, I've never heard anything about the kids parents.

But, when I first heard of the new kids, I thought they could be the spawns of Elliot and/or Claris. But, I actually doubt it...

Didn't on the old forums someone mention that Puffy represented Elliot's mom? And something like Claris's level with Jackle had something to do with her father? It's really late though so I might be mis-remembering. *shrugs* I know for a fact I have heard the Puffy theory before. Nothing wrong with guessing that Puffy might represent Elliot's mom though, as it seems no one knows for sure. lol Just as you say there is no proof showing Puffy represents his mom, there is also no proof showing she dosen't represent her. I think it's pretty much however each person see's it until we get concrete proof that it's not. I do agree that it shouldn't have been posted under known things. Bunni probably heard about it either on the old forum like me or on another website a long time ago and had it tucked away in her/his head as a known thing. Either way this topic is just about Bunni's own personal theory. It was started just as a fun speculation thing until we know more true facts.

The only time that it even comes close to mentioning the kids parents is in the Japanese description of Claris when it says she comes from and artist's home. You can read it on the NiD.com home page under What makes NiD? ^^

Maybe the new kids are relatives of Claris and Elliot? If they aren't there children. Who knows. lol Or maybe far in the future descendents? Might explain the different cityscape. ~ ^__^

T.K- The kids names were mentioned by TRiPPY at the very begining of the reporting for JoD. <3's~ Tis under the JoD news.~

[Curiosity Inc.]

I LOVE transformers! I go to the movie site all the Ti--on topic.

dude, Kevin is totally my life story.

Since my interest in TF is strictly in regard to the upcoming movie, DonMurphy.Net has been my message board of choice. It's like this board, only bigger, focused on TF and with a two-drink minimum. Crazy place.

As for the topic, there is a question regarding the "Splash Garden" connection. Personally, I wonder if Kevin's Splash Garden is identical to Elliott's Splash Garden. Are the levels exactly alike, layout and all? Doubtful, in my opinion. I wonder if it's possible for two people to have similar dreamscapes with subtle variations. Doesn't seem that far-fetched, since an idyllic, magical garden seems like a decent stereotype of a good dream.

Of course, to repeat one of my earlier points, we're way too early into the game and with far too little information to be coming up with complex solutions to minute details. So, let's keep it generic and vague, shall we?

[Curiosity Inc.]

Maybe the new kids are relatives of Claris and Elliot? If they aren't there children. Who knows. lol Or maybe far in the future descendents? Might explain the different cityscape. ~ ^__^

Personally, I'd rather Claris and Elliot played no role in this game at all. I think it's best if we leave them to their happily ever after and let the torch be passed.

Alas, it has been confirmed that Claris and Elliot are indeed appearing in this sequel. Well, I guess that'd be okay as long as their actions don't carry over to the dream world.

That's probably my biggest problem with the theory of this thread: It's incredibly dependent on the actions of the last game's protagonist and I don't want to see Elliot play such a pivotal role for two games in a row. Elliot's had his turn. Let Kevin take center stage.

[~Tsuki~]

As for the topic, there is a question regarding the "Splash Garden" connection. Personally, I wonder if Kevin's Splash Garden is identical to Elliott's Splash Garden. Are the levels exactly alike, layout and all? Doubtful, in my opinion. I wonder if it's possible for two people to have similar dreamscapes with subtle variations. Doesn't seem that far-fetched, since an idyllic, magical garden seems like a decent stereotype of a good dream.

I don't see why it couldn't be possible for two people to have similar dreams. ^^

Of course, to repeat one of my earlier points, we're way too early into the game and with far too little information to be coming up with complex solutions to minute details. So, let's keep it generic and vague, shall we?

Sounds like a plan to me.~ Still fun to poke around and see what wild ideas we all can come up with. lol

Personally, I'd rather Claris and Elliot played no role in this game at all. I think it's best if we leave them to their happily ever after and let the torch be passed.

Alas, it has been confirmed that Claris and Elliot are indeed appearing in this sequel. Well, I guess that'd be okay as long as their actions don't carry over to the dream world.

That's probably my biggest problem with the theory of this thread: It's incredibly dependent on the actions of the last game's protagonist and I don't want to see Elliot play such a pivotal role for two games in a row. Elliot's had his turn. Let Kevin take center stage.

I know what you mean about leaving them to thier happily ever after. ^^ Perhaps they will only make a cameo appearance in it as someone the new children either meet or already know, instead of being a main part of the story.

[animejosse]

I don't mind seeing the kids return, but as it is we know too little to say what their roles will be.

As for the Puffy theory, I believe it come from Sonic Team's old NiGHTS-site. Can't find the link though ._.

[Jof]

I don't mind seeing the kids return, but as it is we know too little to say what their roles will be.

As for the Puffy theory, I believe it come from Sonic Team's old NiGHTS-site. Can't find the link though ._.

The old NiGHTS site

A mess of confusing links and wierd little pages. But ultimately, if anyone can translate, a goldmine of information.

[bunniangel]

My Puffy theory stuff came from the Podcasts where TRiPPY said the information came from the old Sega site and she read the article about it.

Yes, its just fun speculation of the weird things that run through my head (maybe its a side effect of harry potter theorizing) I know its not a lot of information yet, but thats what made it fun for me...since you have a wide range of possibilities. just fun...is all.

[Wrenreele]

Agreed. The idea that the sequel's heroes are the offspring of the original's heroes is way too cliche for a story of NiGHTS caliber.

As previously stated, I'm also skeptical that Puffy represents Elliot's mom. I just don't see any proof of it. Puffy may represent the Great Mother archetype, but that's a completely different thing.

Can you explain..what you mean by "Great Mother"??
Is this in Jung's theroies?? Or am I stupid?

[Curiosity Inc.]

Can you explain..what you mean by "Great Mother"??
Is this in Jung's theroies?? Or am I stupid?

The Great Mother is a Jungian archetype. It's basically a wise and/or powerful mother figure. Examples include Glinda the Good Witch, Hera, or Cindella's fairy godmother. Heck, Cinderella's evil stepmother is probably an example of a Great Mother as well.

[Wrenreele]

The Great Mother is a Jungian archetype. It's basically a wise and/or powerful mother figure. Examples include Glinda the Good Witch, Hera, or Cindella's fairy godmother. Heck, Cinderella's evil stepmother is probably an example of a Great Mother as well.

Sort of like the Wise Old Man?
Thank you for clearing that up for me.

[Huruyami]

The puffy-elliot mom thing seems fan-made to me. However, i remember from archie (which is never right) that puffy represented claris' greatly overweight singing coach. (?) but you cant ever trust archie ya know.

[Kori]

Didn't someone translate the old '96 Japanese site about Puffy? I heard it mentioned there that she was some representation of Elliott's mom, which does kinda fit with the archetype of Great Mother, but a bit more personal. If I'm wrong, do tell!

[Curiosity Inc.]

I've looked through the original game's website, courtesy of Google's web translator. Obviously, this web page was made in the days before Flash became widespread, so the site is very small and easy to navigate.

Bottom line: I went through that site like a fine-toothed comb and Puffy wasn't even mentioned. There is literally zero reference to Puffy and there are no names that could be Japanese for "Puffy".

That pretty much trashes the whole "it's on the official site" argument, doesn't it?!

[Kori]

Dang.. I know TRiPPY and DiGi said something about it on DreamCast, I'll hafta listen through it in the morning. Sorry to have bothered you! ^^;;

[animejosse]

Kori: People makes mistakes, no need to worry about bothering anyone. Besides, I was the one who said it was on the site when it wasn't. Listening through DreamCast might shed some light since TRiPPY and DiGi's monitor has commit seppuku, thus being unable to tell us where they got their info.

Huruyami: You're right, you can't trust Archie. Especially since they changed "who met which maren" thing.

[CORNSiLK]

Let's remember to please be respectful toward everyone here.
We all have different opinions and we're not all going to agree, but please disagree respectfully.

[Huruyami]

Let's remember to please be respectful toward everyone here.
We all have different opinions and we're not all going to agree, but please disagree respectfully.

Tell 'em sista! But yeah, you cant trust archie. So really i think this is another specualtion thing, to be viewed differently.

[KyraWolf]

Im just going to cut in here. :| About Claris and Elliot appearing in JoD...

What if like... the new kids have wierd dreams of them (being Elliot and Claris) at first, or they have Shadow the Hedgehog like flashbacks where they know these people, but why they're thinking of them, they don't know... which could lead them to NiGHTS? *mind flowing right now*

Someone mentioned earlier about maybe just cameo's for them, but I sort of want to see what happened to the two of them, really. :|

[Curiosity Inc.]

Im just going to cut in here. :| About Claris and Elliot appearing in JoD...

What if like... the new kids have wierd dreams of them (being Elliot and Claris) at first, or they have Shadow the Hedgehog like flashbacks where they know these people, but why they're thinking of them, they don't know... which could lead them to NiGHTS? *mind flowing right now*

Someone mentioned earlier about maybe just cameo's for them, but I sort of want to see what happened to the two of them, really. :|

So, Kevin and Helen could dream about Claris and Elliot's previous adventures? A very interesting idea.

The only problem is that it doesn't seem very practical. It seems like an awfully contrived means of exposition and I don't see how else it could serve the plot. Oh, and I don't think that Kevin and Helen will need flashbacks to find NiGHTS. If they don't find him/her on their own (as in the last game), the Nightopians will definitely show them the way.

It's a creative idea, I just don't see how it could work.

[KyraWolf]

So, Kevin and Helen could dream about Claris and Elliot's previous adventures? A very interesting idea.

The only problem is that it doesn't seem very practical. It seems like an awfully contrived means of exposition and I don't see how else it could serve the plot. Oh, and I don't think that Kevin and Helen will need flashbacks to find NiGHTS. If they don't find him/her on their own (as in the last game), the Nightopians will definitely show them the way.

It's a creative idea, I just don't see how it could work.

Well, it seems Elliot and Claris have a close bond with NiGHTS. :| Besides, I don't see how it just can't work. Im not trying to say I'm right, but flashbacks are always a possibilty. If you ever played Kingdom Hearts II, when Sora started to see more and more of what he forgot, everything started to flood back to him. Somehow, I think (in my opinion) that seeing more and more of Claris and ELliots adventures, they may know what to do, or what they're up against... or maybe they're distant relatives of the two kids, which means they might be able to create a bond with NiGHTS just as easily.

Or the new kids may not even be in a league with NiGHTS. :|

Im just rambling now.

[Purgatory]

Well, it seems Elliot and Claris have a close bong with NiGHTS. :|

Might wanna fix that typo!!

[KyraWolf]

.... *ROFFLES*

OH. MY. GOD. I DID NOT INTEND THAT. D8 *runs to fix.. VERY QUICKLY*

[Huruyami]

L O L KYRA

[Wrenreele]

If we're making this KH2, why don't we just assume Claris and Elliot to be little fairy things like the FFX-2 girls were. :\
.. Yeah, I don't like the idea either.
I think it would take away the sparkle from Kevin and Hellen (If Any) if they were ....taught what to do in this situation rather then learn, like Claris and Elliot. I'd personally hate the new kids moar cause I'd think they were pussies for not being able to handel whatever will be going on in the game.
If I play/watch a sequel to games/movies I usually want the new characters to show them how it is done.
Example, In Dragon Ball Z, it's always assumed that Goku is the greatest evah...but you always hope that'd Vegeta will teach him a thing or two.

.....
Maybe it is just me, but I'd rather not have new players play the game and be reminded of KH2. :\

[Huruyami]

The puffy-elliot mom thing seems fan-made to me. However, i remember from archie (which is never right) that puffy represented claris' greatly overweight singing coach. (?) but you cant ever trust archie ya know.

speaking of archie, off-topicly i just bought 5 of the 6 comics off ebay...woo?

[Curiosity Inc.]

If we're making this KH2, why don't we just assume Claris and Elliot to be little fairy things like the FFX-2 girls were. :\
.. Yeah, I don't like the idea either.
I think it would take away the sparkle from Kevin and Hellen (If Any) if they were ....taught what to do in this situation rather then learn, like Claris and Elliot. I'd personally hate the new kids moar cause I'd think they were pussies for not being able to handel whatever will be going on in the game.
If I play/watch a sequel to games/movies I usually want the new characters to show them how it is done.
Example, In Dragon Ball Z, it's always assumed that Goku is the greatest evah...but you always hope that'd Vegeta will teach him a thing or two.

.....
Maybe it is just me, but I'd rather not have new players play the game and be reminded of KH2. :\

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Kevin and Helen need to find their own way. If they were just following Claris and Elliot's instructions, doing as they did, that's a cop out. That's more than just blatantly rehashing the original game, that's admitting to blatantly rehashing the original game.

*sigh* Good Lord... nothing against Claris and Elliot, but I really wish they weren't in this game.

[Dark Magician]

I would also have to frown upon both theories of the new kids being related to Claris and Elliot, and the kids learning everything about NiGHTS from Claris and Elliot. It would be better for the two to go through their own situations without any outside aid at all.

As for the walking around in Claris and Elliot's dreams, I believe that it could be that the two accidentally stumbled into the elder Dreamers' realms (that or followed NiGHTS there). But if old and new were to meet, then it would be just like the ending of the first NiGHTS game when NiGHTS, in a way, "guided" Elliot to Claris. But this is only a theory... we'll have to see.

[Tangocat777]

Interesting theory, can't wait to see how accurate it is. Did you read how on one picture NiGHTS' eyes have the reflection of the clock tower? That leads me to beleivs that NiGHTS will enter the waking world during a crucial moment.

[nightdreamer]

I'm not sure if I can theorise anything about the game at this moment because we haven't gotten enough information about it yet. But I would have to agree with Dark Magician about the new characters learning about NiGHTS from the old characters. I think that the new caracters would most likely have to learn about NiGHTS and his fight against the villan of the game on their own (I've heard that Wizeman is going to be back but you can never tell who the main villan is until the game is released and you've played it all the way through).