12 replies to this topic

[Noctourne Wonderland]

Kentilan made this interesting observation-

As far as I can tell, Wizeman has 8 horns in NiD, and 9 in JoD.

So, assuming the events in Journey of Dreams take place after the events of NiD (JoD being a sequel, not a prequel or "equal" in the words of Richard O'Brien), perhaps Wizeman grew a horn to indicate his age. Maybe we could figure out how long Wizey's been around, based on the length and number of horns he has.

Or, if JoD is a prequel, perhaps Wizeman is aging, and like humans, he's detriorating. That could also be an indicator of age.

The final theory that I have is that Wizeman's power is indicated by his horns. In fact that could apply to all maren. For example, Wizeman seems MUCH stronger in JoD, and Reala's horns are longer than NiGHTS's and Jackle's, perhaps showing his power. Note that almost all boss Nightmarens appear to have horns, particularly in NiD.

Your thoughts?

[Zero-Shift]

No offense, but I think you're looking into this way too much. The span of time between NiD's development and JoD's was at least a decade and the JoD team just wanted to update the looks of returning characters. Wizeman probably just has a different amount of horns simply because his design was updated and that's it.

I really don't think the modern Sonic Team would get that cerebral on us, especially considering how long their development cycle was.

[Razer112]

Maybe Wizeman grows a new horn every decade!

[Noctourne Wonderland]

No offense, but I think you're looking into this way too much. The span of time between NiD's development and JoD's was at least a decade and the JoD team just wanted to update the looks of returning characters. Wizeman probably just has a different amount of horns simply because his design was updated and that's it.

I really don't think the modern Sonic Team would get that cerebral on us, especially considering how long their development cycle was.

I understand your point, but why not have a light hearted exchange of ideas? I noticed the difference and thought that it might be interesting to speculate. NiGHTS, and any fandom, would be incredibly dull if we couldn't think about how to fill the plot holes. Journey of Dreams is often panned for it's supposed lack of depth, so why not find some?

Razer- That's probably a joke, but it's a good theory. Unfortunately, that would mean that the first nightmare was had in 1910.

[Razer112]

How about Every Century?

[Rachell]

How about Every Century?

so the first nightmare was had 900 years ago? I dont think so

it would make more sense if a horn grows every 1000 years? so Wizeman would be like...9000 years old

ok I will just stop here, Im not good at speculating

[Dex la Cabra]

just throwin' it on out here, but what if it's related to the amount of times he's died? i dare say NiGHTS isn't the only nightmaren in the history of nightmare to not agree with wizeman's plans also explains why an extra one appears on JoD (aside from, y'know, a different design to looker cooler )

[DiENE]

so the first nightmare was had 900 years ago? I dont think so

it would make more sense if a horn grows every 1000 years? so Wizeman would be like...9000 years old

ok I will just stop here, Im not good at speculating

Meh, sounds good to me.


However, I don't think Wizemans updated look would include a 9th horn just for no reason only because it just seems... iunno, not a good enough reason to give him a random 9th horn making it an odd number, makes more sence if it was even like it was in the first place, now its throwing me all off lol. I mean this is more wishful thinking of course causes there nothing to back it up other than fan speculation (and Sonic Team LOVES doing that, they don't need to hype, we hype ourselves XD)

[Noctourne Wonderland]

Maybe Wizeman isn't the only one. NiD Wizeman has the title 'Wizeman the Wicked," but JoD has no such thing. Maybe it's like "Catherine the Great" or "Ivan the Terrible," in that Wizeman is an occupation, not a name, and the second part of the name is to distinguish each Wizeman. Once NiGHTS destroys one Wizeman, the next visitor without ideya is crowned the new Wizeman. That would make Wizeman VIII Wizeman the Wicked, and Wizeman IX the one in JoD.

To explain the new bosses, perhaps each Wizeman dies along with his creations, so the next can creat a new batch. "But wait!" you say. "How come NiGHTS and Reala return?!" Maybe the souls of past marens remain, and the new Wizeman can create new bodies. That explains the characters redesigns and the similarities between the NiD and JoD bosses. Or, maybe first level nightmarens survive, and the weaker ones vanish.

My mind can create really weird ideas when I'm tired.

[Kentilan]

so the first nightmare was had 900 years ago? I dont think so

it would make more sense if a horn grows every 1000 years? so Wizeman would be like...9000 years old

ok I will just stop here, Im not good at speculating

Sure, Wizeman being 9000 years old would make sense... but if you place NiD and JoD in the same continuity, that would mean NiD takes place 1000 years before JoD!

just throwin' it on out here, but what if it's related to the amount of times he's died? i dare say NiGHTS isn't the only nightmaren in the history of nightmare to not agree with wizeman's plans also explains why an extra one appears on JoD (aside from, y'know, a different design to looker cooler )

This actually sounds like a good theory. I remember when Wizeman was defeated and said he would come back as long as darkness exists in the hearts of humans. Maybe this has happened before (9 times!) and every time he comes back, he grows a new horn.

Maybe Wizeman isn't the only one. NiD Wizeman has the title 'Wizeman the Wicked," but JoD has no such thing. Maybe it's like "Catherine the Great" or "Ivan the Terrible," in that Wizeman is an occupation, not a name, and the second part of the name is to distinguish each Wizeman. Once NiGHTS destroys one Wizeman, the next visitor without ideya is crowned the new Wizeman. That would make Wizeman VIII Wizeman the Wicked, and Wizeman IX the one in JoD.

I'm probably going to be hated for saying this, but "Wizeman the Wicked" is a western fabrication, just like NiGHTS not being a nightmaren or Wizeman wanting to enter the real world. In the Japanese story Wizeman has never been called anything else than Wizeman.
And I still think that Wizeman being a Visitor without Ideya is a mistranslation.

As for NiGHTS and Reala... either they didn't die... or they died and Wizeman didn't learn his lesson and created them again. Or maybe when Wizeman comes back, he forgets everything about his previous life, so he creates them again not knowing NiGHTS already destroyed him, and will again... It's a cycle!


Though I think Wizeman's extra horn is just a random change of design, and NiD and JoD take place in separate continuities. That seems to be the most likely theory to me, even if that's also the most boring.

[Razer112]

Sure, Wizeman being 9000 years old would make sense... but if you place NiD and JoD in the same continuity, that would mean NiD takes place 1000 years before JoD!

Yeah, but you know,

Original saturn game: 1997 I think?
JOD: 2007

This game was made in the next Century!

[Rachell]

Sure, Wizeman being 9000 years old would make sense... but if you place NiD and JoD in the same continuity, that would mean NiD takes place 1000 years before JoD!

well what if there was a decade left until Wizeman's nineth horn started to grow?

or maybe JoD and NiD are not connected at all *slapped* just a speculation D:

[Noctourne Wonderland]

This actually sounds like a good theory. I remember when Wizeman was defeated and said he would come back as long as darkness exists in the hearts of humans. Maybe this has happened before (9 times!) and every time he comes back, he grows a new horn.


I'm probably going to be hated for saying this, but "Wizeman the Wicked" is a western fabrication, just like NiGHTS not being a nightmaren or Wizeman wanting to enter the real world. In the Japanese story Wizeman has never been called anything else than Wizeman.
And I still think that Wizeman being a Visitor without Ideya is a mistranslation.

As for NiGHTS and Reala... either they didn't die... or they died and Wizeman didn't learn his lesson and created them again. Or maybe when Wizeman comes back, he forgets everything about his previous life, so he creates them again not knowing NiGHTS already destroyed him, and will again... It's a cycle!


Though I think Wizeman's extra horn is just a random change of design, and NiD and JoD take place in separate continuities. That seems to be the most likely theory to me, even if that's also the most boring.

I agree completely, I just had a crazy idea and thought I'd share.