11 replies to this topic

[Kentilan]

Yeah, another speculation topic, because I think it's fun to speculate and share theories.

So, how intelligent do you think the various inhabitants of the Night Dimension are?

We know that Wizeman, Owl and the first-level marens (NiGHTS and Reala) are basically as intelligent as humans and can talk, so there's no need to discuss about them (but you can if you want to).
So, let's take a look at the other characters.

Second-level Nightmarens
We don't know much about their levels of intelligence, but I think there's a large range between them. I mean I don't expect Cerberus to be smarter than a real dog, but others like Jackle or Donbalon may be able to talk. Jackle actually talks during the game, doesn't he?
Though Nightmarens have been stated to be crazy (especially Jackle) so maybe they don't have human intelligence, but just a bit below.

Third-level Nightmarens
These are technically less intelligent than the second-levels; I would say they're like animals (and not particularly smart animals), but I know fans sometimes portray them as being able to talk as well. The Goodles may be a bit smarter since they can understand orders (though you could say the same thing about the Ideya-stealing marens in NiD, but maybe that's just their instinct); but they're apparently unable to talk, despite their big mouths.

Nightopians
They seem to act like young children. I would put them above the third-levels. The weird thing about the pians is that, even if they can't talk, Owl is able to understand them. You know, sometimes he says thing like "the Nightopians said NiGHTS is in that cage" or "the Nightopians said there's something shiny over there". So maybe they're more intelligent than they seem...

Octopaw
I assume he's unable to talk, if only because he doesn't have a mouth. He doesn't seem intelligent at all, all he does is hiding and fleeing.

Awakers
These are a bit more complicated. While they don't do much either (they just appear and chase you), I tend to see them as rather intelligent guys. Maybe even talking. Even if they have no mouth. I think I'm contradicting myself now

Alarm Egg
Does he count as a character? I've always seen him as some kind of machine.

So, what do you think?

[Noctourne Wonderland]

Interesting theories. I think that Second Level marens are as smart as humans, because someone had to have built and furnished the Bosses areas, and Puffy seems to be the type to throw dinner parties. The Pians behave like small children, as you said, but Owl can understand them and they have complicated skills, such as building towers. Perhpas, like humans, Pians become more intelligent as they age, and Super Pians are particularly old.

What is octopaw, anyway? A maren? An animal in Nightopia? Regardless, I think he's about as smart as Third Level Nightmarens. The Awakers strike me as not particularly smart, but more like a grey zone between Second and Third level Marens. They seem to know that they're doing something more than instinct, but they don't appear to throw dinner parties.

[Nemoide]

I would like to think of Wizeman as being far above human-level intelligence. After all, he's capable of CREATING things like NiGHTS and Reala. I guess this makes him some sort of god-like thing?
I also like to think of the boss characters as being roughly equal to humans in intelligence level, although sometimes in a very different, seemingly unapparent way. A possible exception of Gilwing, which seems to be a being of pure force, without restraint of intelligence.

[Noctourne Wonderland]

I would like to think of Wizeman as being far above human-level intelligence. After all, he's capable of CREATING things like NiGHTS and Reala. I guess this makes him some sort of god-like thing?
I also like to think of the boss characters as being roughly equal to humans in intelligence level, although sometimes in a very different, seemingly unapparent way. A possible exception of Gilwing, which seems to be a being of pure force, without restraint of intelligence.

I agree completely. JoD even refers to Wizeman as a god, so he's clearly more than just a maren that makes stuff.

Perhaps, like in humans, Nightmarens vary in intelligence. For example, more humanoid bosses tend to behave and speak like humans, such as NiGHTS, Reala, Donbalon, Bomamba, and Puffy, but the marens with the appearence of animals, such as Cerberus, Gillwing, and Gulpo seem more like big Third Level nighmarens.

Then there's the middle ground of Clawz, Queen Bella, and Chamelan. While he behaves like an animal, Clawz is intelligent enough to hide and set off the bombs, making him almost as smart as the humanoid bosses. Likewise, Chamelan creates elaborate illusions with his cards.

Queen Bella is peculiar, because what she does seems to be all instinct, but something about her makes me think of her as aware of what she is doing. A further outlier is Jackle, whose insanity sets him apart from NiGHTS and Reala, but that could be common in Nightmare. Jackle is crazy by human standards, but perhaps the Night Dimension has a whole different view of lunacy.

Your thoughts?

[Kentilan]

I think that Second Level marens are as smart as humans, because someone had to have built and furnished the Bosses areas, and Puffy seems to be the type to throw dinner parties.

Now that you mention it, it's true that second-level marens supposedly created their levels themselves. There must be exceptions, though; I still can't picture Cerberus as being intelligent.

Perhpas, like humans, Pians become more intelligent as they age, and Super Pians are particularly old.

I don't know how the Superpian acts in NiD, but in JoD, he doesn't seem particularly more intelligent than a regular pian.

I would like to think of Wizeman as being far above human-level intelligence. After all, he's capable of CREATING things like NiGHTS and Reala. I guess this makes him some sort of god-like thing?

I agree completely. JoD even refers to Wizeman as a god, so he's clearly more than just a maren that makes stuff.

Hmm, I don't know. I think the fact that he can create worlds and beings is enough to have him called a god, regardless of his intelligence.
Though I agree that he may be far more intelligent than humans; however, I have a hard time conceiving how it's like to have a super-intelligence...

Then there's the middle ground of Clawz, Queen Bella, and Chamelan. While he behaves like an animal, Clawz is intelligent enough to hide and set off the bombs, making him almost as smart as the humanoid bosses. Likewise, Chamelan creates elaborate illusions with his cards.

I would put Chamelan in the same category as Bomamba (human-like intelligence, or just a bit below), since they both look like legless humanoid animals. Actually, I would also put Puffy with them.

I'm not sure about Clawz, but for Queen Bella, I think what makes her look intelligent is the fact that she wears clothes. Compared to the other animal-like marens, that's quite a contrast.

[Noctourne Wonderland]

Now that you mention it, it's true that second-level marens supposedly created their levels themselves. There must be exceptions, though; I still can't picture Cerberus as being intelligent.

Cerberus, being in a cage, definately isn't as intelligent as Puffy, because he could, potentially, create a better place for himself, like Puffy's mansion. Cerberus was locked up most likely, because even Reala acts afraid of him. So, unless he has a weird obsession with cages, one could assume that Wizeman just put him there.

I don't know how the Superpian acts in NiD, but in JoD, he doesn't seem particularly more intelligent than a regular pian.

In NiD, the Superpian controlls the building of his tower, so he must have the knowledge of how to keep order in a large group of workers and create an elaborate feat of architecture. He also acts as a leader, so logically he woild be the wisest of the Nightopians.

Hmm, I don't know. I think the fact that he can create worlds and beings is enough to have him called a god, regardless of his intelligence.
Though I agree that he may be far more intelligent than humans; however, I have a hard time conceiving how it's like to have a super-intelligence...

He may not have "super-intelligence: per say, but I think that the knowing the secret to life itself and the creation of entire worlds requires quite a bit of knowledge.

I'm not sure about Clawz, but for Queen Bella, I think what makes her look intelligent is the fact that she wears clothes. Compared to the other animal-like marens, that's quite a contrast.

Excellent point. Out of all of the Nightmaren, only Bomamba, Chamelan, Jackle, Puffy, NiGHTS, Reala, and Wizeman wear clothes, and out of those seven, four are the most powerful of all. Perhaps clothes denotate the intelligence of a nightmaren. After all, Third Level marens and bosses like Gillwing and Cerberus, the least intelligent, wear nothing, and Wizeman, NiGHTS, Reala, and Jackle have the most elaborate outfits of all. Puffy, Bomamba, and Bella do indeed have gowns, capes, and hats, but they don't compare to the detail of Jackle's cape, NiGHTS's vest, or Wizeman's neck piece. You mentioned Puffy seeming less intelligent, so perhaps the lack of deatil in her dress in relation to that of Bomamba and Bella indicates her lower status.

Am I over analyzing this?

[viperxmns]

+1 for Nightopians? - In NiD's story (as presented in the English booklet), it was a Nightopian who called upon Elliot and Claris to help NiGHTS in the first place. This could still suggest at least the intelligence of a small child, perhaps.

[Kentilan]

In NiD, the Superpian controlls the building of his tower, so he must have the knowledge of how to keep order in a large group of workers and create an elaborate feat of architecture. He also acts as a leader, so logically he woild be the wisest of the Nightopians.

Well, he also gets the pians to build a tower in JoD... It's just that once he's done, he acts exactly like a regular pian (aside from knocking marens). He may be more intelligent that them, but that's not saying much...

Perhaps clothes denotate the intelligence of a nightmaren. After all, Third Level marens and bosses like Gillwing and Cerberus, the least intelligent, wear nothing, and Wizeman, NiGHTS, Reala, and Jackle have the most elaborate outfits of all. Puffy, Bomamba, and Bella do indeed have gowns, capes, and hats, but they don't compare to the detail of Jackle's cape, NiGHTS's vest, or Wizeman's neck piece. You mentioned Puffy seeming less intelligent, so perhaps the lack of deatil in her dress in relation to that of Bomamba and Bella indicates her lower status.

I don't think I said Puffy seemed less intelligent...
While I agree that clothes give an indication of a maren's intelligence, I don't think you can take into account their complexity. After all, all the outfits were simpler in NiD, probably for technical reasons.

Am I over analyzing this?

No

+1 for Nightopians? - In NiD's story (as presented in the English booklet), it was a Nightopian who called upon Elliot and Claris to help NiGHTS in the first place. This could still suggest at least the intelligence of a small child, perhaps.

It's true that Nightopians are sometimes given the ability to talk, as in the Archie comics. But personally I ignore the western versions of the story.

[Noctourne Wonderland]

Well, he also gets the pians to build a tower in JoD... It's just that once he's done, he acts exactly like a regular pian (aside from knocking marens). He may be more intelligent that them, but that's not saying much...

He has powers beyond that of a regular Pian. I think that shows an increase in intelligence, no matter how slight.

I don't think I said Puffy seemed less intelligent...
While I agree that clothes give an indication of a maren's intelligence, I don't think you can take into account their complexity. After all, all the outfits were simpler in NiD, probably for technical reasons.

I interpreted what you wrote as saying that Puffing has slightly subhuman intelligence, which is less than my theory.
I understand the technical aspect, but even in concept art Puffy had a somewhat simple pattern. Often in my experiences with early drafts of designs, the characters or whatnot start with incredibly elaborate concept drawings, so there was not even early attampts to make Puffy look more detailed.

No

Thank you.

[Kentilan]

He has powers beyond that of a regular Pian. I think that shows an increase in intelligence, no matter how slight.

I thought his strength had more to do with his huge size

I understand the technical aspect, but even in concept art Puffy had a somewhat simple pattern. Often in my experiences with early drafts of designs, the characters or whatnot start with incredibly elaborate concept drawings, so there was not even early attampts to make Puffy look more detailed.

OK, but honestly I think Puffy's design is actually more complex than that of NiGHTS, Reala, Jackle or Wizeman in NiD.

[Penelopi]

I'm not sure about Clawz, but for Queen Bella, I think what makes her look intelligent is the fact that she wears clothes. Compared to the other animal-like marens, that's quite a contrast.

I agree that Queen Bella seems on the more intelligent side, but I never considered the clothes being a part of that impression. That's an interesting view.

What has always made me think she's more intelligent than Cerberus and the like, though, is her behavior and expression. NiGHTS says in the cutscene for the hard fight against her "Stop messing with Helen's memories!" or something like that, which implies that Bella was subtly and cleverly tampering with Helen's Nightopia/consciousness/whatever. That requires complex thought. And also, the way in the beginning of the hard fight, when she hovers over the lava, she looks at the camera with this "Heh heh, you're in trouble now." If she had a human face, I imagine she'd be smirking then. A very chilling, cruel smirk.

[Lumas Nocce]

I love Queen Bella! The thing that's confusing about her is that she doesn't have a human appearance, like Puffy, Chamelan, and Bomamba. The latter two even act more intelligently, what with spells and tricks. Bomamba has to be above animal intelligence to keep pets, I should think.
Anyways, as for Bella, I've come across a couple of pretty funky fic that show NiGHTS communicating with her. She speaks telepathically, and NiGHTS obviously has some skillz, so maybe only maren could hear her? Anyways, her setting, her actions in the Nightopia, and the clothes-wearingness imply sentience.
Cerberus is a different story. I guess he is a Maren, but he's really old and really strong for a second-level. Even Reala holds him in some awe. I assume, based on this, that he (it? they?) are basically super-intense monsters, but with some cunning. If you remember how they hid in the doghouse?
We all know Jackle can speak, right? If he talks, than shouldn't other second-levels posses an equal amount of intelligence, even if it manifests differently?