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NiGHTS in modern gaming genres


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22 replies to this topic

#1
TRAViS

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Hey all, I write to you after having just played a couple of PopCap games for the last few days. And every time, losing HOURS playing them.

Seeing their sheer simplicity, under which lies shockingly hidden depth, got me thinking about how it would be easy to apply NiGHTS to a casual gaming genre in the modern game world. You know, the kind of place where Halo 3 and Bejeweled have the same sales month-to-month. God, how far we've come since 1996.

I know a lot of you will probably disagree, but NiGHTS today probably most likely fits the "casual" genre. I'm not talking JoD with an actual elaborate story, cutscenes, and missions and such, but the raw, distilled gameplay we saw in the original. The game was so simple. Fly through rings quick enough to link them and get points. Get 20 chips, recover 4 ideya, and make it back to the palace/shrine in 2 minutes or less. Then go fight a boss with a peculiar weakness. Repeat 7 times over until the game's end, then go back and A-rank everything. Sounds like most of the casual games I've been playing recently, where getting through the level's easy enough, then 100%-ing's the goal, then you start score-attacking your way up the leaderboards.

I think a NiGHTS game similar to the original would definitely fall into the casual game category today, and could probably see success produced and marketed as such with a sub-$20 (15 Euro) price point. Discuss.

#2
Kentilan

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I don't know what PopCap is, but NiGHTS is not what I would call a casual game.

The game was so simple. Fly through rings quick enough to link them and get points. Get 20 chips, recover 4 ideya, and make it back to the palace/shrine in 2 minutes or less. Then go fight a boss with a peculiar weakness.

Honestly, that's not what I would call "simple". Sure, there are more complicated games out there, but it's still far from the simplicity of Bejeweled for example.
And adding or removing cutscenes don't make any difference on the simplicity of the gameplay.
Though I'm not sure what you mean by "casual game" or whether it's the same thing as a simple game, so...

I could see a remake of NiGHTS into dreams on the XBLA (doesn't mean it would be a casual game, though), and I assume it would have some success, but that's definitely not what I would want for a brand new NiGHTS game.

#3
Penelopi

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:/ It's hard to say whether NiGHTS counts as casual or not. Sure, it's not that hard--once you get used to it. When I first played JoD, I could do just about anything but fly in a straight line. It took me several days to adjust to the controls because I'd never played anything like it before. I know a lot of people give up on it before they've gotten the hang of it. I just can't see my mom or someone else who plays games like Brain Age and Mario Kart just picking it up.

Of course, my definition of a "casual game" might be different from yours, TRAViS. I tend to base my judgment of that on the difficulty rather than the gameplay formula. For example, I would not call Super Mario Bros a casual game even though it has a pretty simple system. You just get through the level while gaining items and points and trying to avoid being hit. But it's not for people unused to platforming (like me :rolleyes: ) because it's easy to die. Most casual gamers wouldn't make it through.

#4
iLLViLLAiN

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I think it's a lot more of an arcade game. I can't really define a game as casual or hardcore but with the players I could. Like with NiGHTS I'd call myself a hardcore fan but a casual player. I don't play as much as I used to.

But anyway I'd say it's an arcade game. Seriously I could see this game in an arcade. Charlie would always have the highest score though haha.

#5
charlie

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I think it's a lot more of an arcade game. I can't really define a game as casual or hardcore but with the players I could. Like with NiGHTS I'd call myself a hardcore fan but a casual player. I don't play as much as I used to.

But anyway I'd say it's an arcade game. Seriously I could see this game in an arcade. Charlie would always have the highest score though haha.

:lol: LOL...thanks iLLViLLAiN!

I do think the original NiD has a simple concept, but only when you actually know what you're doing, which takes a while for most people.

I remember not knowing what to do when I started playing, and I've heard a lot of frustrated people complain that they get failing scores all the time because the game is too hard. First time players don't usually know about links right away, or the tokens, or the x2 time, or the stunt ribbons, or even the fact that you should perform multiple laps!

I think the initial hurdle in NiD is just too much for the casual crowd to really get into it. It would need to be simplified even more for the truly casual crowd.

#6
Noctourne Wonderland

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I would like the terms explained, please! From my understanding-

- "Casual" games are simplistic

- "Hardcore" games are confusing

But what, pray tell, is an "arcade" game? :lol:

#7
Nessa Mouse

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Hum, you really don't see arcade games anymore. *Sigh* End of a freakin' ERA, people. I'll never forget the hours and tokens wasted on the Dungeon and Dragons arcade game and Numan Athletes, which I've never seen again.

Anyway, back on subject. It's hard to put a 3-D game in the casual catagory I think. It takes a tremendous amount of work to make them compared to PopCap style games. That alone seperates NiGHTS games from casual for me.

#8
Nemoide

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I think NiGHTS is more "hardcore" than anything else. Because a casual gamer would probably sit through the game, beat the whole thing in an hour with a C on every level and be done with it. "Casual games" that last for hours are more simple in gameplay, like Bejeweled.

I could be mistaken but aren't casual games devoid of things like characters, storylines, and complex gameplay. (I think NiGHTS' gameplay is complex because you have to explore on foot, know how to get high Links, perform stunts, etc. Rather than just "match this many of a certain color".) Also when I play NiGHTS I end up with sore thumbs, which doesn't really happen with Solitare or Minesweeper...

But pigeonholing games into titles like this is kind of counterproductive?

#9
Huruyami

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According to IGN, NiGHTS is a platformer. I would personally also tie in fantasy and MAYBE a pinch of flight simulator. But the last one is a bit shaky since you're flying from a distance instead of 1st person, and you're flying a purple clown, not a plane. So.

In my opinion I don't see NiGHTS as casual, simply because its too fast-paced for casual.

#10
Razer112

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I kinda feel Like it's a Racing game or a puzzle game For some weird reason.

#11
iLLViLLAiN

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According to IGN, NiGHTS is a platformer. I would personally also tie in fantasy and MAYBE a pinch of flight simulator. But the last one is a bit shaky since you're flying from a distance instead of 1st person, and you're flying a purple clown, not a plane. So.

In my opinion I don't see NiGHTS as casual, simply because its too fast-paced for casual.

When I first heard someone call it that I was kind of confused. I'm not saying it's wrong but I always thought platformers involved jumping and climbing.

#12
Penelopi

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When I first heard someone call it that I was kind of confused. I'm not saying it's wrong but I always thought platformers involved jumping and climbing.

That confused me, too. It actually won an award for Best Platformer once, according to a friend of mine. My guess is they didn't know what else to categorize it as.

#13
Zero-Shift

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It's sometimes hard to define what makes a game casual or hardcore, but NiGHTS always struck me as airing on the side of hardcore and comparing it to that Pop Cap garbage is insulting. The Pop Cap brand of casual game is quite shallow and never really expands on it's initial concept, unlike NiGHTS. Sure, the game has a fundamentally simple concept, but it's expanded on by assorted complexities such as links, stunts, and boss fights to name a few. Add to the equation that the game requires actual skill to perform well and you have a game that requires more mental investment than oh say Peggle or Bejeweled.

As for it's genre, I'd say the fact it doesn't fit nicely into any category and it has a heavy emphasis on the high score, NiGHTS could probably be best categorized as an arcade title. Beyond that, Action would probably be the next best genre.

#14
Maresuke

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I think I understand what you're saying. Reminds me of the hand held pocket game NiGHTS where you collect 20 blue chips befor time is up and when you collect stars it adds to your score.

Something with simple graphics and controls would be more casual rather then hardcore linking. Like the handheld... you had 4 directions and that's about it.

It's a nice idea but you'd have to redesign NiGHTS game into a user friendly game... which would be interesting if it was simple like the handheld... if you gave it actual graphics. lol

#15
venomnights15

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I know what you mean, I love popcap games they're the best. I would say that nights qualifies under being casual in the concept of the levels and what to do, and being hard-core in the storyline and the design of the levels (note that each one represents something of one of the visitors) and the characters that how I see nights in way of genres

#16
Huruyami

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I understand the confusion for platformer. Here is a definition of platformer:

Platformer is a genre of video game in which the characters travel along horizontal surfaces, climb, jump and otherwise move from surface to surface collecting items and defeating enemies.

NiGHTS travels on a horizontal surface (flying across the screen) and does move from surface to surface, albeit through flight and not jumping. The flying through rings, collection of blue chips, and destruction of many enemies along the way categorize this into a platforming game. While NiGHTS into Dreams takes the definition of platformer and creatively distorts it, JoD in a sense fits the category more mainly because of the on-foot stages and more environmental interaction.

#17
Zero-Shift

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I staunchly believe there is little to qualify NiGHTS as a platformer.

Platformer is a genre of video game in which the characters travel along horizontal surfaces, climb, jump and otherwise move from surface to surface collecting items and defeating enemies.


By this NiGHTS almost automatically disqualified because he doesn't move along surfaces. Also, in NiGHTS the item collection is a means to an end. In platformers the item collection and enemy combat is usually and end in and of itself.

NiGHTS travels on a horizontal surface (flying across the screen) and does move from surface to surface, albeit through flight and not jumping. The flying through rings, collection of blue chips, and destruction of many enemies along the way categorize this into a platforming game.


NiGHTS moves through the air. He doesn't go from surface to surface at all. I can also collect items and defeat enemies in Gradius and Raiden and move on a two dimensional surface through the air, yet you wouldn't categorize them as anthing but shoot-em-ups.

Honestly, the one truly vital aspect that defines the platformer genre is the player character moves from surface to surface and around obstacles through jumping or an action analogous to jumping. This is a trait largely lacking from both NiGHTS titles and the segments that do conform to this are not the norm of the gameplay experience.

#18
phosphorus

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If I were to try and fit NiGHTS into an existing genre, it would be a platformer, but that's like lumping Elite or Freespace into the same category as Colony Wars.

I've seen a lot of people describe Flower as some kind of reference by which you could make a more "modern" NiGHTS game, but I don't buy it. The sense of freedom isn't there and the experience isn't nearly as energetic (except for the last level).

I'm pretty sure we can agree that the side scrolling flying still holds up, but perhaps the problem with it is that score attacking isn't very popular nowadays. Ehh, I'll have to keep thinking about it.

#19
viperxmns

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NiGHTS's genre: Action!

Getting more technical than that just gets confusing. As per the above conversation :lol:

#20
NNR07

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Platformer.
Neither casual nor hardcore. Somewhere in the middle.

#21
Noctourne Wonderland

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NiGHTS is an example of a perfectly made game because it can be casual, but depending on one's obsession, it can become hardcore. Two of my friends just sat down and played it, but they didn't have the craziness to find everything like I have. :lol:

#22
MiTCH

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To my understanding, hardcore games are long and somewhat difficult games that actually require some skill to complete, like many RPGs, whereas casual games are short, simple, can be completed within a few hours, and any five-year-old without an attention span can play, like Wii Fit/Sports/Play. Finally, arcade games are relatively short games which have easily attained endings, but the real challenge is going through each individual level and getting everything, like Starfox. So to me, NiGHTS is an arcade game.

#23
LUCiD

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I'd say it's somewhere in the middle between hardcore and casual. Casual because there isn't any huge overly-challenging elements to the gameplay. Hardcore because of the storyline. (more-so in JoD than NiD,) and also because of you have to be a really dedicated gamer to get the highest score you can possibly can. Also because, when you really start to analyze the characters, there really is an extremely intense story to it. Like how Reala must obey Wizeman to murder his own brother whom you could tell in certain parts in JoD he really does care about. Also, he is afraid that if he disobeys Wizeman, he will not only be brutally destroyed, he will be betraying the rest of his family and be murdered by his very own father. Also... I'm analyzing this game too much, aren't I? ;)




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