31 replies to this topic

[Maresuke]

I know lucid Dreaming helps a lot of people explore more about themselves and helps them find happiness... or unhappiness. Either way, Lucid Dreaming is something a lot of folks tend to want to do or love doing...

However, am I the only person who is against Lucid Dreaming?

I don't promote it for a number of reasons. A lot of people use Lucid Dreaming to help them while they dream, saying it makes them stronger. I see it more as like you're cheating yourself. If you realize it's a dream and you just do whatever you want then you've failed the dream. It's like using codes in a game. You get to see the outcome or even make one up yourself... but you lose that gratification of doing it the original way.

To me, I suppose, LD is cheating. That's just one reason why I don't like it and I don't support it.

Another would be for those who sculpt their dreams by LD. So if you were to make the dream you're dreaming.... then how "Real" was that dream to begin with?
Example: You're LD and you call upon NiGHTS, because you've never seen him before.... you want to ask him things or play with him, hug him, or whatever.... ...when he comes, then who is he really? If you know it's a dream then doesn't that make the NiGHTS you see fake? He isn't really himself but more of the NiGHTS you want to see rather then the NiGHTS he actually is.

Those are two examples I can think of off the top of my head. And again, I mean I understand WHY people LD but... .... am I alone in being against it? I'm not out to start a fight, just curious. I'll never enjoy knowing I LD when I do and I'll try hard to STOP LD when I can just so I can have the "Real" effect of things... even if that means being haunted by nightmares... because that's what's SUPPOSED to happen, imo. So I let it happen.

Any and all comments welcome. Thanks.

[Nemoide]

I think I understand your position but I also think it is a bit flawed. It does make sense, in a way, to consider it "cheating"; getting away from what would come naturally. Why should an alcoholic try to reform if they're naturally an alcoholic?

However, life is not a video game. It is a technique that can be used to better ones life (in various amounts, depending on the person). You might as well say that yoga is cheating because people gain spiritual attainment they otherwise wouldn't have. Or that "if man was meant to fly, God would have given him wings".
As for the experiences of lucid dreaming being real/fake (as in the NiGHTS example); how could it be more real/fake than any other experience? If a person believes it is real, isn't it?

Lucid dreaming gives people more control over their lives. While this control could be wasted, it can also help people. It could cause more self knowledge. Certain groups encourage LD-based ritual workings, working to unite the "higher self" and concious mind in a plane with perhaps more psychic potency than physical reality. Self-psychological repair can be done.
But really, even if all it did was bring a little bit of satisfaction to somebody who otherwise wouldn't have it, isn't that good cause for it enough? Without discipline, it is rare for people to even remember their dreams. And even though it can be well argued that all dreams are wish-fulfillment, sometimes it takes some tweaking to get them to satisfy the WILL (what is REALLY wanted).

It's not necessarily for everyone, of course. If you don't enjoy it, by all means continue to just "go with the flow".

(I hope I made sense in this post.)

[Jof]

Personally, on the few times I have Lucid Dreamt (like, twice), I've found it extremely gratifying. To me, it's like you have a whole blank canvas to work with. In a Dream, you can quite literally do anything you want.

I'd love to be able to LD more often. I'd love to come home from a boring monotonous day knowing that when I shut my eyes, there'd be nothing I couldn't do, with no reprecussions.

[Maresuke]

Dont' worry, Nemoide. You made sense. And I understand fully what you explained. I suppose my example wasn't very good. I'm not sure how to explain it. I'm more against using your conscious mind then your unconscious mind to create dreams. I also know there are different levels of LD. That "NiGHTS" example was more for those who are fully LD, and fully aware. I support anything that helps someone mentally but I'll never enforce or recommend it. Thanks for being so honest with your reply. I apologize for being so stubborn in mine.
Though, from your words alone, I am starting to think maybe LD is something everyone should experience at least once in life. Even if they never do it again.

Personally, on the few times I have Lucid Dreamt (like, twice), I've found it extremely gratifying. To me, it's like you have a whole blank canvas to work with. In a Dream, you can quite literally do anything you want.

I'd love to be able to LD more often. I'd love to come home from a boring monotonous day knowing that when I shut my eyes, there'd be nothing I couldn't do, with no reprecussions.

When I had an "open canvas" LD dream, what I did/drempt kinda bit me back in the butt. lol Be careful what you wish-er... dream of.

But you don't try to LD every time you sleep, right? LD can happen naturally. I guess I'm against unnatural LD.... if that's possible to imagine. Maybe I'm just a weirdo.

[Kentilan]

In my opinion being conscious while in a dream allows you to enjoy the dream and have control over what you do. You dream every night whether you want it or not, so you might as well take advantage of it.

A lot of people use Lucid Dreaming to help them while they dream, saying it makes them stronger. I see it more as like you're cheating yourself. If you realize it's a dream and you just do whatever you want then you've failed the dream. It's like using codes in a game. You get to see the outcome or even make one up yourself... but you lose that gratification of doing it the original way.

But what is the gratification of having a regular dream?
Well, if you assume dreams have a meaning, I understand that getting lucid and controlling your dream makes you lose that meaning. But if dreams don't have any meaning, then it doesn't matter.

Another would be for those who sculpt their dreams by LD. So if you were to make the dream you're dreaming.... then how "Real" was that dream to begin with?
Example: You're LD and you call upon NiGHTS, because you've never seen him before.... you want to ask him things or play with him, hug him, or whatever.... ...when he comes, then who is he really? If you know it's a dream then doesn't that make the NiGHTS you see fake? He isn't really himself but more of the NiGHTS you want to see rather then the NiGHTS he actually is.

But I don't see how dreaming of NiGHTS in a regular dream makes him any more real. He's still a dream, lucid or not. Well, that's just my opinion.

[Maresuke]

In my opinion being conscious while in a dream allows you to enjoy the dream and have control over what you do. You dream every night whether you want it or not, so you might as well take advantage of it.


But what is the gratification of having a regular dream?
Well, if you assume dreams have a meaning, I understand that getting lucid and controlling your dream makes you lose that meaning. But if dreams don't have any meaning, then it doesn't matter.

To me, Dreams have meaning till you interfear. Then what meaning is that? Your concious mind is at work. There is no meaning. You just kill a beautiful dream/nightmare for something YOU want rather then what your unconcious mind gave you. That's not in all cases... I know sometimes the world around you doens't change... but to me LD kind of spoils the "ending" and all the surprises that go along with it.
I guess I pref to see where things take me and know how I'd deal with it unconsciously rather then using LD to advert the coming traffic. But, that's personal pref. I like to handle what's given to me, rather then avoid or change the situation given. It gives me gratification knowing I could handle it on my own.

But, from what I'm hearing... I'm the only person against LD. Allwell.

[tinfoil]

One of my friends doesn't like lucid dreaming. She says she gets bored and wakes up, so she's tired all the time.

[StarsOfCASSiOPEiA]

I've never had a lucid dream myself, but I do have some opinions on this nevertheless.

I have a friend who has lucid dreams quite often, but she says it sometimes screws up her sleep schedule. That's one downside, I agree- you're tired, and she says sometimes she wakes up before anything interesting happens. Otherwise, she seems to enjoy it.

If you're trying to find a meaning from a dream, I agree with Maresuke- being lucid completely messes it up. As intriguing as it sounds to be able to be asleep and have control of your mind, couldn't you still be just as creative or imaginative whilst you're awake?

I'd personally like to try it before I completely take a side. I do agree, though, that stuff like the WILD does scare me. The sensation from that just seems like a little too much for me to handle.

[Penelopi]

I can see where lucid dreaming might change the dream's original direction. I don't like to tamper with it too terribly much when I'm lucid, either, just enough to keep from being killed or to help people who need it. I think you should be allowed to do at least that much. I mean, should I have let that girl shoot me and my family?

And lucid dreaming doesn't necessarily take away the meaningful experience. I remember a lucid dream where I was very conscious and flew through an abandoned castle and a bright city nearby. The city was fun, but the castle was awe-inspiring. It was vast and dark, and there were so many rooms I hadn't explored yet. I flew into one room and saw a huge exotic tree that sprung up thousands of feet from the depths below. Words can't describe the amazement, even fear that I felt.

Also, I've found that dreams will adapt to your tampering and weave new, just as important, meaning into the story. I had a lucid dream where my little brother and I escaped from a restaurant Satan was taking over. We would zoom away outside for a while, and then would hit a wall and find ourselves back in the restaurant. This happened several times until I finally imagined the scene outside the window when we flew out. All I pictured were the trees, but my dream expanded it into a beautiful inlet from the sea surrounded by cliffs with trees on them. In the middle of the inlet was a tall rock with a hollowed-out space at the top, a small cave. A blue dragon lived there, the Asian kind. He grabbed a frozen chunk of ice with something inside from on top of the rock, flew it down into his cave, breathed on it, then shouted a word and smashed it with his claws. A tiny black form flew out, but I was too far away to see what it was. The dragon asked me if I understood what the word means, and I said I didn't. He urged me to come closer, and I watched from a few feet away when he did it to another chunk of ice. I saw that the thing that came out was a winged, armless creature. It had been dead and the dragon revived it. All of a sudden, I understood that the word meant "life." That held a lot of significance to me that I still haven't fully realized.

Sometimes, though, I think my dreams encourage going lucid. It's gotten to the point where some characters in my dreams will acknowledge that I'm lucid dreaming. I find that my conscious actions in my dreams make up a large part of the meaning in it. For example, recently I had a lucid dream where I was about to do something very selfish and terrible. But NiGHTS was there and he said "Didn't you once say that if you are honorable, you strong?" I paused, realized fully what I was about to do, and stopped. Then we were just kind of quiet for a while. NiGHTS finally said to break the silence, "This house is strong." And I noticed the hard, pelting rain outside. The house, old as it was, was holding up very well. No rain was getting through, and the structure wasn't buckling. "Yes, it is honorable," I replied. That decision made all the difference in that dream. It was the lesson.

Sorry my post is so long, but I'm just trying to make a point. Lucid dreaming does give you a great deal of control compared to normal dreams, but it's not the same as inventing a story or using cheats in a video game. You can have some control, but never complete control. The dream will still get its messages across, sometimes even by putting you into a situation where you have to make a conscious, lucid decision that has consequences.

[Razer112]

I had a Lucid Dream but I couldn't do anything but Know, "Hey this is a dream so I shouldn't be scared if my dream body did something dumb!"

[sapphire]

I have lucid dreamt several times (lost count). I don't really see it as "cheating" your dreams, but I only lucid dream (and want to) very, very occasionally, because, as you said, Maresuke, it ruins the true "magic", and experience of dreams, in my eyes. What's so fun in creating your own adventure every night, knowing what was going to happen to you? Though creating your own happiness is great in life, I see dreams totally different.

I do want to lucid dream occasionally, though. I usually want to when I've had a terrible experience in my day and I don't want that troublesome problem affecting my dreams too much. Why would you want them too? I mean, dreams are the only place I can escape from my real-world problems and be totally unbound from everything that matters.

I don't feel like I need to lucid dream very much, though. My dreams I have usually are vivid and exciting enough to keep me content and sane in real life, and usually they are not based on my real life.

[Rachell]

I dunno if to consider it cheating, it would be like say that everything that we create by ourselves is cheating, I dont know, since no matter how hard I try just I cant reach lucidity, and when I do...I wake up a few second later... my dreams are never that significative, dont represent anything to me, most of my dreams are just awful nightmares where I end dying

I dont see cheating to create your own enviroment where you can be happy and forget everything about the world at least for one night, I totally want to know how does that feel...you people are lucky to have those awesome Onironaut habilities T~T

[DiENE]

I always knew that if I was in an LD and I wanted to chill with NiGHTS it wouldn't be him...thats why I have never tired to "meet" anyone/thing in my LD's, I just try to do interesting stuff I normally can't. Plus most of my most non LD's that pertain to NiGHTS in anyway are pretty strange, feel different but no solid occurence of any maren are present.
The only Maren I have seen in LD's are not in the game. If NiGHTS ever did show up out of nowhere without my knowledge, that would be pretty cool but whatever, its what he does, But back to the point...

I'm not necessarily against LD's because of this, and I also don't find it cheating (maybe to force people to be in your dreams lol) but I think LD's are far too important to just give up on the whole idea, I mean who wouldn't want to do whatever they wanted if given the chance? I hardly ever LD and when I do its after weeks/months of strict practice, it dose NOT come easy for me whatsoever so its quite the prize when I achieve lucidity for even a minute. I feel there's so much hard work involved, I WISH it was like using cheats lol.

For a long time now I have not tired, its so hard for me I just end up giving up but I feel like its such a waste of a good nights sleep. I feel like not being in control is a waste of a dream because otherwise I'm just out cold watching my dream like watching television for 8 hours straight, and I don't even watch TV, I HATE it XD so I hate the thought of spending my dream time literally dead to everything when I can make SO much of that dream time. I have kiddie like fantasies I awe at when I watch Hayao Miyazaki films and theirs always some moment or place in anime I would like to relive and I can fulfill those dreams by LDing I have also interested others in LDing, those people are now having many more LD's than myself...dammit. Lol

[apti]

I've only been able to dream lucidly a few times, and maybe I wasn't fully lucid, but it seemed like every time I got to that state, all the activity in my dream just stopped. Everything went sort of flat, and I wasn't able to make interesting things happen on my own. IMO, what makes dreams so fun for me is that I never know what's going to happen, so everything is new and interesting. I like it best when a dream has a life of its own and doesn't need to be directed.

[SiLENCE]

The few times I have been Lucid, I've used it only to get to the Dream Gate or a Nightopia. After that, I just sort of let the dream flow.

[Helen]

I think you are not the only one.
I knew I dreamed when I had my first dreams with Nights,and with other dreams.

[Purge]

I wouldn't know.
I've never had a Lucid Dream before.

[Sylvaria]

For me, I would love to Lucid Dream.

My explanation is a simple one.

I get more or less constant nightmares lately. I can't get away from them, can't change them, and I keep having the same ones over and over again. There are some that I know have haunted me since I was 5 or 6 years old. If I could Lucid Dream, I could change them, and that would be so welcome.

It's like a video game that has no solution for me, except to use a code. And darn it, I sure could use a new one now. I'd love to have NiGHTS with me to overcome some of these childhood issues.

So until I get the chance to LD, I'll always look forward to it.

[Lost in Dream]

I would love to experience a lucid dream. There is one small problem for me though... every time I become aware that I am dreaming I wake up.

But lucid dreaming to me might take the fun out of remembering and interpreting the dream.

[iLLViLLAiN]

The only thing I hate about this lucid dreaming joint is that I can't do it. I haven't tried all methods but man is it annoying when you finally realize that you're dreaming and then you wake up.

I would love to experience a lucid dream. There is one small problem for me though... every time I become aware that I am dreaming I wake up.

Glad I'm not the only one.

[Penelopi]

The only thing I hate about this lucid dreaming joint is that I can't do it. I haven't tried all methods but man is it annoying when you finally realize that you're dreaming and then you wake up.


Glad I'm not the only one.

Yeah, that's annoying. Try to stay still and settle down. Don't get too excited, or you'll wake up. If you start waking up, and your vision is blanking out, it may help to imagine something happening and then let your mind drift so that the mental image moves on its own (like when you're falling asleep and see those weird hypnagogic visions). In that way, your subconscious takes over again and the dream resumes, or a new one starts. Either way, you'll be lucid. It's easiest to picture a third-person event. You can shift into first-person later if you want to.

[Lost in Dream]

Yeah, that's annoying. Try to stay still and settle down. Don't get too excited, or you'll wake up. If you start waking up, and your vision is blanking out, it may help to imagine something happening and then let your mind drift so that the mental image moves on its own (like when you're falling asleep and see those weird hypnagogic visions). In that way, your subconscious takes over again and the dream resumes, or a new one starts. Either way, you'll be lucid. It's easiest to picture a third-person event. You can shift into first-person later if you want to.

But I don't get excited. It's like: Oh hey this is a dream. <POOF! awake>

[iLLViLLAiN]

But I don't get excited. It's like: Oh hey this is a dream. <POOF! awake>

That is EXACTLY how it is with me.

[Penelopi]

But I don't get excited. It's like: Oh hey this is a dream. <POOF! awake>

So it's instant, or is there a second or two?

[Lost in Dream]

So it's instant, or is there a second or two?

There may be a second delay but it mostly is I realize its a dream and the next moment I wake up.

[Leonhart]

The only time I was ever Lucid was during a Resident Evil zombie dream. It was epic when I dreamed up a whole arsenal of weapons and started kicking undead ass<3

It played out exactly like a chapter from Outbreak, but with more ass kicking XD

[Penelopi]

There may be a second delay but it mostly is I realize its a dream and the next moment I wake up.

Hm...I'm not sure what to say.

Every second counts. The moment you realize you're dreaming, stay still and try to retain the dream by not letting your consciousness peak too much. I said "excited," but it was more of a feeling where the dreamy fuzziness left my brain and I became more and more aware until I actually woke up (but it happened in a second or two). Try to keep that fuzziness, if you can figure out how. When you wake up, do your eyes open instantly, or do you have to make an effort to open your eyes and sit up/get out of bed? If it's the latter, you have a chance at snatching the dream back like I mentioned before.

*sigh* I'm not good at explaining this. A lot of my dreaming techniques are based on my own mental control, the way my brain works, and it's hard to tell someone else how to do them because there's no terms for these feelings--if these things can even work the same way with someone else...Go ahead and try, if you want. If it doesn't work, then I don't know what else to suggest that I haven't already seen mentioned elsewhere on this site. >.< I'm sorry.

@Leonhart: You're brave. I hate zombies in my dreams. I still wake myself up sometimes if they're coming my way. Dead things...Ugh...

[GraceWolf]

Well I think I've had them but to me dreams are dreams. All that matters is how far you go into it.

[Noctourne Wonderland]

Another would be for those who sculpt their dreams by LD. So if you were to make the dream you're dreaming.... then how "Real" was that dream to begin with?
Example: You're LD and you call upon NiGHTS, because you've never seen him before.... you want to ask him things or play with him, hug him, or whatever.... ...when he comes, then who is he really? If you know it's a dream then doesn't that make the NiGHTS you see fake? He isn't really himself but more of the NiGHTS you want to see rather then the NiGHTS he actually is.

The few times I've been able to lucid dream, it's because I saw NiGHTS. When I relaized that there was NiGHTS and a few pians, I had to be Nightopia, and thus, in a dream. Does that still count as a "fake" NiGHTS if I saw him beofre becoming lucid?

[Penelopi]

The few times I've been able to lucid dream, it's because I saw NiGHTS. When I relaized that there was NiGHTS and a few pians, I had to be Nightopia, and thus, in a dream. Does that still count as a "fake" NiGHTS if I saw him beofre becoming lucid?

I'd say he's not fake. And even if you're lucid before you see/call him, if you don't "touch" him with your expectations and he comes by his own means once you've called and is independent of your mind, then he's still probably real.

[leox001]

I have had one lucid dream that was horrible, though right now it's completely ridiculous.

I knew I was dreaming, and I was in McDonalds, suddenly everyone left and I was alone in there and there were no doors or anything to get out, I was like trapped and I felt horrible. I wanted to wake up and I couldn't!

I was like 6-7 years old, I should have imagined there were a million burgers or I don't know, why I had to imagine a castastrophy

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The other "Good" lucid dreams I've been having the last years are basically what iLLViLLAiN and others have been saying.
I dream I get something I really want, last dream was a PSP I think xD and towards the end of the dream it's like everything starts concluding that it is a dream and it's not happening, then I wake up like "... Damn that just sucked"

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I understand that about cheating or something, but really, I'd like to enjoy my dreams for a change, I will try out this "lucid dream" practice (Term I just learned today in this forum), it could be awesome.

[Tsukasa2]

Anyone suffering from sleep paralysis might want to watch this:



God bless you all.

Trev.