291 replies to this topic

[Maresuke]

Normally you just have to select 'Options -> Internal Faces' to correct that.

I should have included an option to center the model automatically, because doing it manually can be quite tedious
(EDIT: Done. Now you can just press Enter to center the model.)

By the way, is anyone interested by facial animations? I think I've figured out the format, but implementing them won't be easy...

Thanks, I'll try that once I get a computer again. (Mine died just yesterday) I'd love to come back to some facial expressions. I'm interested in seeing them because NiGHTS eyelids are a part of his model but Reala's wasn't. Interesting.

I can't thank you enough for all the hard work. I can't wait to get my computer back up and running. It'll be a treat.

[Melancholy Teapot]

The animations won't appear! Thank you for bearing with my stupidity.

EDIT: Could someone explain the difference between brtex, brcha, and brmdl, and how to open each? Brmdl is the model and Brcha is the animation, but what is brtex?

The textures, I think...

Thanks a lot to everyone working on this, the model viewer amuses me to no end.

[Kentilan]

The animations won't appear! Thank you for bearing with my stupidity.

EDIT: Could someone explain the difference between brtex, brcha, and brmdl, and how to open each? Brmdl is the model and Brcha is the animation, but what is brtex?

As Melancholy said, brtex files are textures. If you're using the "Auto Load" option, you don't have to worry about them.
To open a new model (brmdl file), select 'File -> Load Model' in the menu.
To load an animation (brcha file), select 'Animation -> Load' (if "Animation" is not in the menu bar, that means you're using an older version of the program).
Once you've loaded an animation, you have three cases:
a ) the model moved a bit. That's a good sign.
b ) the model didn't move at all and still have the same position. That means this animation is not for this model, so load another one.
c ) the model disappeared. That means it was translated. If you're using version 1.21, just press Enter. Else, move the camera with the left mouse button until you find it.
Once you have your animation ready, select 'Animation -> Play' (or press the spacebar). The animation should be playing then. If the model stays still, just wait (or you can press the '+' key a dozen of times to make things go faster).

Thanks, I'll try that once I get a computer again. (Mine died just yesterday) I'd love to come back to some facial expressions. I'm interested in seeing them because NiGHTS eyelids are a part of his model but Reala's wasn't. Interesting.

I can't thank you enough for all the hard work. I can't wait to get my computer back up and running. It'll be a treat.

Actually, Reala's eyelids are also part of his model, but for some reason they're not animated when you load one of NiGHTS's animations (same thing happen when you load Reala's animation with NiGHTS's model). Maybe there's a way to correct that, actually...
And I'm sorry to hear about your computer.

Thanks a lot to everyone working on this, the model viewer amuses me to no end.

Glad you're enjoying it!

[Pyrii]

Actually, Reala's eyelids are also part of his model, but for some reason they're not animated when you load one of NiGHTS's animations (same thing happen when you load Reala's animation with NiGHTS's model). Maybe there's a way to correct that, actually...

Is this with the modified reala, or the one with the persona mask attached to his model? This may be what's causing problems.

I have a curious case for you, I had a brainwave and decided to use your viewer on some models in Let's tap, but the architecture is slightly different, models, animations and textures are packed together in brres files. When extracted, they come out as MDL0 (readable by viewer), CHR0 (Not sure, somewhat readable), and tpl files (ignored) all in separate folders.

I made a pack with the .brres file. BRRES.exe extractor I use and tplx.exe I use for decoding tpl files. Screenshot showing the model opened and it basically makes the model look the same for every animation opened.

(Screenshot) (BRRES pack)

Thought It'd be worth asking, take your time, I know you're busy.

[Kichigai]

I've always been curious on how they moved NiGHTS eyes around and now I know. It's just one big ball (half ball thingy)... and the fact they added light squiggly eye veins just makes it creepy.


Nightmare fuel -->

[Dex la Cabra]

I've always been curious on how they moved NiGHTS eyes around and now I know. It's just one big ball (half ball thingy)... and the fact they added light squiggly eye veins just makes it creepy.


Nightmare fuel -->

i'm going to be up all night now.....

[Kentilan]

Is this with the modified reala, or the one with the persona mask attached to his model? This may be what's causing problems.

I used the original model, with the mask, so I don't think it has something to do with that...

I have a curious case for you, I had a brainwave and decided to use your viewer on some models in Let's tap, but the architecture is slightly different, models, animations and textures are packed together in brres files. When extracted, they come out as MDL0 (readable by viewer), CHR0 (Not sure, somewhat readable), and tpl files (ignored) all in separate folders.

I made a pack with the .brres file. BRRES.exe extractor I use and tplx.exe I use for decoding tpl files. Screenshot showing the model opened and it basically makes the model look the same for every animation opened.

(Screenshot) (BRRES pack)

Thought It'd be worth asking, take your time, I know you're busy.

I think SSBB also uses brres files like that, so I guess that's the regular use. It seems the model looks fine when you load directly the brres file in the viewer, but it is messed up when you load the MDL0, for some reason. You can also load the brres again as a texture file, in that case the program will only load the first texture of the pack (which is the eye texture).
I don't know why CHR0 files seem to be working; they shouldn't. The trouble with these extracted files is that they lack all the names found at the end of the brres file, and these names are used to apply the animation to the right bones.
I'll see what I can do. Maybe I could just split the brres into brmdl, brtex and brcha files.
Also, the CLR0 files are interesting. I think they're something like color animations.

[Pyrii]

Nightmare fuel -->

i'm going to be up all night now.....

Allow me to help:
se_stg4000_005.adx (Sound of the darkness)
sng_start_stg3011.adx (Wizeman's boss taunt and laugh)
LastBell_Helen.adx (Wizeman steals Helen's Ideya she uses to fly - Helen Version)

[Dex la Cabra]

no....No...........NOOOOO!!!! the nightmare-ness of it all!

[Pyrii]

no....No...........NOOOOO!!!! the nightmare-ness of it all!

Added another adx for extra nightmarishness.

I think SSBB also uses brres files like that, so I guess that's the regular use. It seems the model looks fine when you load directly the brres file in the viewer, but it is messed up when you load the MDL0, for some reason. You can also load the brres again as a texture file, in that case the program will only load the first texture of the pack (which is the eye texture).
I don't know why CHR0 files seem to be working; they shouldn't. The trouble with these extracted files is that they lack all the names found at the end of the brres file, and these names are used to apply the animation to the right bones.
I'll see what I can do. Maybe I could just split the brres into brmdl, brtex and brcha files.
Also, the CLR0 files are interesting. I think they're something like color animations.

Yeah, interesting stuff in there, I think brtex/brcha/brmdl are pretty much the same as brres. brsar requires a different approach though which leads me to believe there are slight differences between them all.

Colour files are interesting to me too, there is a multiplayer mode with different colour characters, maybe this is the colour information for them. Strangely, there is a 3P version I haven't looked at yet.

----
Are there any better tpl/tls extractors out there? What do you guys use?

[Kentilan]

Are there any better tpl/tls extractors out there? What do you guys use?

I usually use tplconv, which converts tpl files to png, but it doesn't always work, so I also use tplx.
(though for brtex files, I use my own brtex-to-bmp converter)

By the way, what is brsar?

[Pyrii]

By the way, what is brsar?

Sound container, like brtex is to textures. hcs recently updated ripping_mama for the latest .brsars from Lets Tap.
Output tends to be whatever, but at the moment it's rwsd and rwav

EDIT: letsdump still lets you dump the brsar contents while ripping_mama will hunt out individual rwavs and extract them, even out of rwsd containers inside the file.

[Sentinal]

Do I need a specific program to view these? cause when I load the MDLviewer it tells me this *select a BRMDL file please, and the open bar says "*.brmdl" and I have no idea what this means. All I need are two standard model pictures of Helen and Will for refrences to draw them on my Devart page. So if someone could explain this to me in a tutorial, or simply post a screenshot of Helen and Will in standard standing poses. I would love you forever. lol

[InTheNightlight]

Ok, so I loaded Reala model.... with NiGHTS' animations.... and I can't stop cracking up! XD I notice his horns are cut off (prob due to NiGHTS' horns being animated and Reala's aren't) and his Gem is in a different position... however both Mask and Maskless models work and I'm crying and laughing while watching him pose with his hands on his hips, chained up, and playing the air-flute. I REALLY needed this after a day like today. Thanks so much, Kentilan. holy crap this is tooo amusing.



Wizeman's Right Hand's dying animation is.... upsetting....

Awesomeness!

...Chained Reala looks kinda creepy ...(...his eyes are just staring...staring...staring...)

[Kentilan]

Do I need a specific program to view these? cause when I load the MDLviewer it tells me this *select a BRMDL file please, and the open bar says "*.brmdl" and I have no idea what this means. All I need are two standard model pictures of Helen and Will for refrences to draw them on my Devart page. So if someone could explain this to me in a tutorial, or simply post a screenshot of Helen and Will in standard standing poses. I would love you forever. lol

When you download the program, there is a directory called "sample" (except with version 1.21). This directory contains several model files, whose extension is "brmdl". When you launch the program, it asks you to select a brmdl file, so you have to browse to the "sample" directory and select one of the model files.

[Pyrii]

I have an uber-image update in the works, but while I work on that...

onex is having trouble with files in the csd/advertise/ dir. It can't seem to write the files which suggest the construct looks good but the data is off or a header misread. Might want to look into it <egostroke> ol' Kentilan the wizard programmer </egostroke> XD

There's a 0.5 of tplconv, but I'm not happy with the output so sticking with tplx for now.

[Pyrii]

This post is gonna be image heavy, but hopefully worthwhile, I know Kentilan touched on some of this stuff in the first post but didn't post everything. This post relates to 3 files in csd\textures\ that related to E3/TGS stuff left in. pjn_adv2ndromonly.tls is a lone file while pjn_adv2ndPlusromonly.tls & tgs_stgselect.tls have language variants (tgs_stgselect.tls being the only one with any actual differences).

I decided to post full contents to give an idea of the stuff that's being waded through in here, but still quite cool to look at.

First let's look at pjn_adv2ndromonly.tls which seems to be an E3 show floor demo with few levels in, and simplified title graphics.

pjn_adv2ndromonly.tls > (00-06)

pjn_adv2ndPlusromonly.tls comes in various language variants, but there seems to be absolutely no difference between them. This seems to feature more levels and missions, which may mean it's a press review copy that press could take to further review a game progress at the event or at work. FIrst 3 files here are exactly the same as above so I've linked them instead.

pjn_adv2ndPlusromonly([null]/fr/ga/it/sp/us).tls > (00 - 09)

pjn_adv2ndPlusromonly_00.png
pjn_adv2ndPlusromonly_01.png
pjn_adv2ndPlusromonly_02.png

Lastly, another gem I found, but this one is for the ROFLs. This is obviously stage select graphics for the TGS demo. But not much else, either it used the E3 title screen graphics or was more like the final and used the final title screen. Anyway, the last file is different between [null] and us versions (Japanese being null/original). As this was for TGS, they obviously translated it themselves, leading to engrish XD (note: fr/sp/it/ga versions are the same as the Japanese version)

tgs_stgselect.tls > (00/01/03(jp/us))

And that's it for TGS/E3 textures so far. Make of it what you will, I've only put up my assumptions on what these images mean.

As a bonus for reading this far, here's a dump of all the concept art inside the same directory for you to view outside of JoD without texturing (As Kentilan pointed out this probably includes stuff not in the Final game).
[Download here] Password is: conseptart (because all the concept art HUD textures are in a file named file_conseptart.tls)

ENGRISH AHOY!

[Kentilan]

onex is having trouble with files in the csd/advertise/ dir. It can't seem to write the files which suggest the construct looks good but the data is off or a header misread. Might want to look into it <egostroke> ol' Kentilan the wizard programmer </egostroke> XD

XD
After investigation, the problem comes from the fact that the file path written in those files uses '/' instead of '\'.
Try this. It should work now.

Password is: conseptart (because all the concept art HUD textures are in a file named file_conseptart.tls)

Haha, I didn't even notice

I started working on the brres spliter; it appears the animations in the file you provided are very slightly different from the brcha files in JoD, so the model viewer won't play them (unless you edit the animation file; you just have to remove four bytes to make it work). So I'll have to update the viewer.

[Pyrii]

I started working on the brres spliter; it appears the animations in the file you provided are very slightly different from the brcha files in JoD, so the model viewer won't play them (unless you edit the animation file; you just have to remove four bytes to make it work). So I'll have to update the viewer.

No rush, it seems SEGA like changing methods and standards every once in awhile (sofdec is still a mystery). Lets Tap even uses 2 types of LZ7 compression which I spent 4-5 days figuring out

XD
After investigation, the problem comes from the fact that the file path written in those files uses '/' instead of '\'.
Try this. It should work now.

Thanks. Heh, didn't spot that one.


Liver Rescue... sounds like a alcoholic's intervention. So wait, they used R for Rescue, but L for River. L isn't even part of the japanese language... ARGH! THE MIND BOGGLES!

[Sentinal]

When you download the program, there is a directory called "sample" (except with version 1.21). This directory contains several model files, whose extension is "brmdl". When you launch the program, it asks you to select a brmdl file, so you have to browse to the "sample" directory and select one of the model files.

Thank you so much I needed these models for better references for my drawings

[Noctourne Wonderland]

Liver Rescue... sounds like a alcoholic's intervention. So wait, they used R for Rescue, but L for River. L isn't even part of the japanese language... ARGH! THE MIND BOGGLES!

I blame the craziness of engrish. Flesh Meats for Sale!! Either that, or the people who worked on JoD needed liver rescue....I mean, who just thinks of something as scary as rollercoaster NiGHTS?!

[Noctourne Wonderland]

Liver Rescue... sounds like a alcoholic's intervention. So wait, they used R for Rescue, but L for River. L isn't even part of the japanese language... ARGH! THE MIND BOGGLES!

I blame the craziness of engrish. Flesh Meats for Sale!! Either that, or the people who worked on JoD needed liver rescue....I mean, who just thinks of something as scary as rollercoaster NiGHTS?!

[Kentilan]

I managed to get vertex animations to work. They're mostly use for facial animations, but also for when NiGHTS turns into his drill-dashing form or into a ball
So I'm asking again, is there any particular models or animations you'd want for the next release?

[Pyrii]

I managed to get vertex animations to work. They're mostly use for facial animations, but also for when NiGHTS turns into his drill-dashing form or into a ball
So I'm asking again, is there any particular models or animations you'd want for the next release?

Unsurprising, body parts can be boned, but facial animations can't, in max it involves using morpher to animate between predefined models and their differences in vertex locations. I don't think anyone's bothered to program such a thing for a game engine so they probably baked the vertex locations the old fashioned way into a vertex animation file.

Sorry, thought I'd add a reason why. My guess is the eyelids will be animated the same way. I personally want to see some of that awesome acting, I'm sure the Reala fans want something from his cutscenes

[Kentilan]

I'm not sure what's "the old fashioned way", but I know in JoD each character has several face expressions stored in the model file. During cutscenes, all these expressions are blended together with variable proportions to animate the face.
On a side note, NiGHTS's and Reala's face animations are not interchangeable this time (I think this is because their face expressions use different names).
The eyelids, however, are animated by bones. However the animation no longer work when you swap the models, but I'll try to add an option to correct that.

[Dex la Cabra]

so we can't make reala mouth NiGHTS' dialogue? aww, that could've been fun regardless, you're quite a genius with all this stuff Kentilan!

[Maresuke]

On a side note, NiGHTS's and Reala's face animations are not interchangeable this time (I think this is because their face expressions use different names).
The eyelids, however, are animated by bones. However the animation no longer work when you swap the models, but I'll try to add an option to correct that.

Aw, shucks. I'll just keep copy of older version for the fun of it. I'm actually interested in seeing the Reala animation for after NiGHTS and Reala fight in delight city. I'd also like to see the clocktower scene and the memory forest cutscene where Reala Circles Helen. Maybe even one of him with Wizeman, Girania or Cerburus perhaps?

I feel spoiled asking for stuff like that. lol

[Penelopi]

I'd like an animation for Cerberus, because I have the model and it's just sitting there, no flowing mane or anything. Also, it would be fun to see NiGHTS in ball form rolling. Oh! And the part where Reala charges in for the first time in Helen's story! That's an awesome scene.

No pressure, though. Do whatever you guys want. I don't want you all to be overworked. Thanks again for doing all this model work. It' soooo much fun to play with the viewer!

[Sentinal]

Is it possible to animate Wizeman, I know he doesn't have much but he must have something
or just his model with the hands would be cool

[Noctourne Wonderland]

Can you do the bosses, particularly Bomamba and Donbalon? They'd be pretty fun to play with.

[Maresuke]

Is it possible to animate Wizeman, I know he doesn't have much but he must have something
or just his model with the hands would be cool

Doens't he just kind of sway in place? lol He'd make an interesting bobble head... but agree. I would like SOMEHTING for him as well.

[Kentilan]

Aw, shucks. I'll just keep copy of older version for the fun of it.

I think I didn't express myself properly. I meant animations for the eyelids are fine when played with the right model, but when you swap models, the eyelids are not animated. Though I'll try to make it work anyway. But animations for the rest of the body can still be swapped between NiGHTS and Reala.

I'm actually interested in seeing the Reala animation for after NiGHTS and Reala fight in delight city. I'd also like to see the clocktower scene and the memory forest cutscene where Reala Circles Helen. Maybe even one of him with Wizeman, Girania or Cerburus perhaps?

For those who didn't see it, I uploaded earlier all of Reala's cutscene animations (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=MBSL6EEO). Though I'll also upload facial animations next time.
But, I'm not sure what you're referring to when you mention scenes with Girania or Cerberus.

Also, it would be fun to see NiGHTS in ball form rolling.

The model for NiGHTS's ball form was uploaded with the first release. Unfortunately, I don't think there's an animation of him rolling. At least I couldn't find it.

Is it possible to animate Wizeman, I know he doesn't have much but he must have something
or just his model with the hands would be cool

Wizeman's animations are pretty boring if you ask me But as you wish.
Though the hand's models have already been uploaded.

[Maresuke]

I think I didn't express myself properly. I meant animations for the eyelids are fine when played with the right model, but when you swap models, the eyelids are not animated. Though I'll try to make it work anyway. But animations for the rest of the body can still be swapped between NiGHTS and Reala.


For those who didn't see it, I uploaded earlier all of Reala's cutscene animations (<a href="http://www.megaupload.com/?d=MBSL6EEO" target="_blank">http://www.megaupload.com/?d=MBSL6EEO</a>). Though I'll also upload facial animations next time.
But, I'm not sure what you're referring to when you mention scenes with Girania or Cerberus.

Oh, Thanks. And sorry, I meant AFTER you fight them on HARD mode... there is a cutscene with Wizeman and Reala... Any of them will do... but my favorite is the scene were they discuss Cerberus. I think that's after Bombomba is defeated.

[Kentilan]

Alright, there it is: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=519D9VU5

Note that Donbalon is a bit particular: his arms and eyes are animated separately from his body. So when you play an animation, only his body will be animated. (Donbalon's model is "ev_lead.brmdl", and its animations are those which don't indicate the model in their names..)


EDIT: and here is a small program to split brres files into separate files with the extensions used in JoD.

[Sentinal]

Alright, there it is: <a href="http://www.megaupload.com/?d=519D9VU5" target="_blank">http://www.megaupload.com/?d=519D9VU5</a>

Note that Donbalon is a bit particular: his arms and eyes are animated separately from his body. So when you play an animation, only his body will be animated. (Donbalon's model is "ev_lead.brmdl", and its animations are those which don't indicate the model in their names..)


EDIT: and here is a small program to split brres files into separate files with the extensions used in JoD.

Wow thank you so much for the Wiseman its so cool. Also I don't know alot about model ripping, but I do know that it is impossible to rip CGI Animation clips. Now my questions are, is there a file ever giving Helen and Will's friends, names? and is the Bellbridge Clock tower model rippable or is scenery invalid? again these are questions from a noob lol

[Pyrii]

Wow thank you so much for the Wiseman its so cool. Also I don't know alot about model ripping, but I do know that it is impossible to rip CGI Animation clips. Now my questions are, is there a file ever giving Helen and Will's friends, names? and is the Bellbridge Clock tower model rippable or is scenery invalid? again these are questions from a noob lol

stage3000\level00\ shows various stuff .one packed .brres and .brtex, but the models themselves are .brres packed so the brres_split tool was good hindsight here.

http://filestore.pix...esearch/ss1.jpg
http://filestore.pix...esearch/ss2.jpg
http://filestore.pix...esearch/ss3.jpg
http://filestore.pix...esearch/ss4.jpg
http://filestore.pix...esearch/ss5.jpg

As you can see, the tower and buildings are layered (base diffuse, lit areas, roofing and roof ornaments) from different models and there's also different "stages" of the models. One curious thing is most of the buildings are only half there, like they've imported incorrectly, this may be intentional or not... I'll leave that one to kentilan.

But as you can see, it's hard to get a complete belltower, let alone a lone one at the moment.

[Kentilan]

Now my questions are, is there a file ever giving Helen and Will's friends, names?

No, there's nothing about them since they don't appear outside of CGI cutscenes. I don't think the developers even bothered to give them a first name (but you can see the last name of all of Will's teammates on the scoreboard in Will's ending).

As for the Bellbridge tower, it may be possible to write a program to merge the different models and get the complete tower (I was planning to do that anyway), but it probably won't be possible to get the tower alone.
I think the reason some building are only half there is because you never get to see the other half during the game, so the developers didn't model it, that way it takes less time and space.

[Pyrii]

No, there's nothing about them since they don't appear outside of CGI cutscenes. I don't think the developers even bothered to give them a first name (but you can see the last name of all of Will's teammates on the scoreboard in Will's ending).

As for the Bellbridge tower, it may be possible to write a program to merge the different models and get the complete tower (I was planning to do that anyway), but it probably won't be possible to get the tower alone.
I think the reason some building are only half there is because you never get to see the other half during the game, so the developers didn't model it, that way it takes less time and space.

I was taking a look at the source and I don't even know where to begin... You certainly have a talent for writing 3D programs. I think it's best to clean up first before looking at maybe pulling everything together using scene files. Still need alpha blending. And I have to request debug the drawing of variables in the view window if possible. anim.speed & anim.curframe mostly. I'm finding most of the cutscene anims prefer a speed of 0, but the default I've realised is -3 I guess it'd be nice to experiment and find which speeds work best for certain files.

PS. I don't claim to have much of an idea about what I just said, just trying to be more constructive than "I WANT THIS!"

[Kentilan]

I think it's best to clean up first before looking at maybe pulling everything together using scene files. Still need alpha blending. And I have to request debug the drawing of variables in the view window if possible. anim.speed & anim.curframe mostly.

What do you mean by "clean up"?
And about alpha blending, the trouble is that I don't really know where/how it's coded in the files, and using blending requires to draw the faces in a specific order. So, unless someone really wants it, it's not a priority for me.
Printing variables on the window shouldn't be too difficult I think.
EDIT: There. Press F8 and stuff should appear on the screen.

[Kentilan]

Well, merging BRMDL files was much harder than I expected, so instead I converted the models into a simpler, custom format (that I called .ktl), and then I could merge the models. I pieced the Bellbridge tower together, but there are all the other buildings with it.
Now if you're still interested, you can download the model, the textures and the KTL viewer (the commands are the same than for the BRMDL viewer) here:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=F6SOA0J9
Though I must warn you that the model is a big file, and it may take some time to load, or lag when you move it (if that happens, disabling colors should speed it up a bit).