39 replies to this topic

[venomnights15]

I'm sure we all know that in the graphics department Jod didn't score any high points but what if the standard gameplay graphics were same quality of those in the opening movies and the opening movies had better graphics would it sell more than it could have

[charlie]

I think the graphics are great! I'm not sure why everyone is so hard on JoD about it's graphics. I think the in-game cutscenes could've been better, more like the opening scenes, and the walking animations are pretty bad, but the gameplay graphics are fine. Yes the textures are low resolution, but when you are flying around how often do you stop and stare at the ground.

Anyways, I don't think it would sell any more if the graphics were better. People just don't give the game a chance, probably because the gameplay and story are just so different than traditional games.

[iLLViLLAiN]

I don't mind the graphics. Maybe it's because my standards aren't high for what type of graphics are acceptable. As long as a game doesn't looke like N64, SAT, or PS1 in this gen I'm okay with the graphics. I didn't even care about the graphics when I was reading info. I just wanted issues with the gameplay removed like platform levels, not like that happened , and I was more concerned with voice acting for all the characters. I'm not sure if NiGHTS is one of those games where graphics improve the gameplay because it's fun with almost any 2D graphics.

From the type of graphics you are talking about, the game would have been on the PS3/360 instead of the Wii. It may not have made much difference since the gameplay with the Wiimote wasn't that great to a lot of people though it's one of those things that take time to master I'm sure, and they just used GameCube or classic controllers.

[viperxmns]

There are just a couple of things that continue to bother me about the game graphically. In those cut scenes, the 'low res' models of the kids just come across as lazy computer models devoid of emotion. And the 'win' screens, when the character kind of stands there gesturing (continuing tradition from Sonic Adventure) again, I kinda think the art direction could have been a bit more sophisticated.. instead of standing there grinning, what if NiGHTS took a bow and flew off.. and Helen looks like a dunce.. blah, I'm just ranting I know. But we want this game to be as good as it could possibly be. Once again, they never actually got to finish making the game. I hate you, Sega.

[Seleste]

Seeing as it was released on the Wii, the graphics aren't meant to be the selling point (thats for 360 and ps3), and having them be spectacular would be fantastic, but wouldn't boost the sales by much (especially since gamers know this already).
Also I thought the JoD graphics were really good scenery wise. It was so pretty.

It is of my personal opinion that the game did right by releasing on the Wii and not the other systems because of the VC (but they never implemented it! after the marketing mistake of *not* releasing the original game with the sequel only with upgraded graphics as one "bonus package").

What I think would've boosted the sales is trimming the cut scenes a bit or taking most of them out (and erasing the voices in favour of sounds and speech bubbles like in super mario galaxy. Would've worked fine without messing with the ambiguous gender concept). The cut scenes are a major turn off for the majority of new players. That and uh... the character remodel of the villain, reala. Make it campy and bizaare, but I cannot see that appealing to a lot of male gamers, heh.

I don't think that 'alternative' or 'different' gameplay is a problem. most people *are* looking for innovation. It's just this time around this game didn't really offer that. They could've, for example, made more use of the wiimote gesture features and made NiGHTS perform aerial tricks of various sorts and in different orientations with a swing, turn or shake of the wiimote (in addition with the precision control of the nunchuck, only mentioning this because of the gameplay videos I see uploaded on youtube none made use of the yellow ribbon or performed ANY aerial tricks at all. It's like "guys? you do know there are a bunch of these things exist, right?") Stuff like that, there are possibilities that could've made this game more inventive. As in not basically repeating the old one.

I guess what I really hoped for from the game is for it to be a darker (but not less colourful) version with a different story line (and since the sequel came out there is a place to redeem themselves with a third game in a different direction and perhaps changed gameplay. the hardcore fans might look at it as too much "not the NiGHTS that we know" but that doesn't have to be a bad thing. all about trying new things rights? especially since JoD was kind of exactly the NiGHTS that we all know.

But I digress and offtopic ><

[Dreamy NiGHTS]

You know, I thought it couldn't kill to have better graphics, especially during the cut scenes. The kids did look a little emotionless. Other than that, I thought the game was great. Better graphics wouldn't have made the game sell more. Story and control are probably some of the most important factors when it comes to buying and/or playing a game. Graphics do count, but when you consider the platform, the focus is more on a fun and playability level, then how good the graphics are. Especially, this type of game where you're not going left-to-right, or back-to-forward; You're flying on a 2D track in a 3D world. Story-wise, I think Sonic Team could have tried a little harder. Control-wise, I think they did a good job. Graphic-wise, they could have tried a little harder. But back to the topic: no, I don't think that better graphics would have sold more copies.

[Penelopi]

It would have been better for me, personally. I often daydream of how the cutscenes would look if more work had gone into them. As for sales, it wouldn't have improved them significantly, but yes, a little. The game reviews would have had less to criticize, which wouldn't have discouraged as many of their readers from buying the game. As many have said, though, the graphics don't count nearly as much as the gameplay.

[Dreamy NiGHTS]

The thought that the game doesn't say "Nintendo" on it is being brought up as well. IMO, I really don't think that that would turn off buyers at all. There's people out there who don't like Nintendo (Although I can't imagine why...). That fact that the game doesn't say Nintendo is not a big reason either. To be honest, I didn't know that the game was coming out til 2 or 3 months before it came out. There just was no hype to it, no advertisements, no commercials, no nothing. They should have advertised this game way more than they did. That would have sold more copies.

[EZEKiAL]

I thought the graphics were fine. Really, the graphics being better wouldn't make me want this game any more or less.

[Nyx]

Well, I think with the Wii's capabilities, they could have probably used the style and quality from the intro and secret ending videos through the entire game.

Any higher than that, well... You guys were making some pretty interesting comments on how well NiGHTS had his backside rendered as it was -- any higher of a quality then the intro/secret ending videos, and it'll fly out of the screen.

However, I also know a little bit about how the gaming system works. You have too many objects, pixels, vertex, or polygons in the same place, the system tends to slow down or choke completely. I think that they sacrificed some of the quality for fluid play.

After all, if it had been TOO high of a quality for graphics, then the flight simulation would be choppy, because the game engine has to render everything else as you get to it. We've all probably played games where you'll spawn in a map and get 'blocks' of data in the game that are still trying to load. For instance, you'll load a save in Champions of Norrath for the PS2, and your characters will spawn in the map, but it takes a good 20 seconds for the floor underneath you to finish rendering. That's because the game is loading by the level -- all the enemies, textures for the map, and items are being rendered -- plus the figures for damage, health regeneration, and your inventory are being figured at the same time -- causing the game to drag, slightly.

Now, in JoD, the game is trying to load backgrounds, water, trees and wind, interacting objects including enemies, cages, keys, chips, the rings, and the Pians -- and then you've got NiGHTS at high definition, who's got to have the arm and leg movements, idle movements, and controlled movements at the prompt of a WiiMote.

As it is, JoD has loading screens before you enter a different Dreamworld from the DreamGate -- giving me the impression that JoD loads the entire level at once, making gameplay smoother. If you had higher definition graphics, it would have to load some things as they came into the map on the screen -- lagging the game.

As for cutscenes, though? I think they all should have looked like the intro/secret ending videos. I mean -- the game is loading a cutscene, either way. A video file that is completely separate from the gameplay itself, so it would sacrifice nothing to have the cutscenes in higher definition.

And there I go ranting again.
Just my opinion, feel free to ignore.

[Ventro]

I think the only reason why it got a low score on graphics because the wii is more capable for better graphics. Then again, better graphics doesn't make a good game.

[Kentilan]

I think it's possible that with better graphics the game would have sold a little better. Yes, we all know that good graphics don't make a good game, but you know, people are easily impressed, and they don't always buy the better games.

And actually, good graphics make the experience better. Because you don't just play the game, you also watch it, you know. It's always better if the game is pretty.

I honestly think the graphics should have been better, if only for the cutscenes. Seriously, graphics are my main gripe about the game (because I think everything else was pretty good). They weren't that bad, but I'm sure they could have been so much better (well, I'm only talking about the models of the main characters. The levels and bosses were fine).

As for cutscenes, though? I think they all should have looked like the intro/secret ending videos. I mean -- the game is loading a cutscene, either way. A video file that is completely separate from the gameplay itself, so it would sacrifice nothing to have the cutscenes in higher definition.

Ah, of course, it would have been much better that way, but I think CG cutscenes are quite expensive...

[EZEKiAL]

I know what you mean by "watching the game". When I played Wind Waker, I felt like I was watching a movie.

[Innotech]

what most of you seem to be wantimng is better art direction/animation/cutscenes which are not graphical attributes. Graphically, NJOD was beautiful for a wii game. Increasing this aspect would not make the game any better because niGHTS is the sort of game that thrives on gameplay design and music. NID isnt a graphically gorgeous game at all (and I can now see this on my own TV at home (woot) but it is a fantastic display of gameplay innovation and creativity. Maybe NiGHTS could have been rounder, or the levels could have had a bit more detail in some places, but it really wouldnt affect the experience, because the NiGHTS flying levels in NJOD are drop-dead gorgeous.

[Dex la Cabra]

i always thought that if the graphics were better, it would be even harder to relate it to the original's. at least this way there's an intermediate, and the next game (hopefully not another 11 years from now!) will have at least one thing it can improve on from JoD

[Lady Spritzy]

take a look at the Sonic games currently, and you'll see the same kind of stuff in JoD. SEGA's by itself is too lazy to do anything good/decent/finished nowadays. now when they've got collaborators id est sonic chronicles or crush, then you'll get better graphics. so, i blame SEGA for being a bunch of lazy jerks.

[Saifer Dracondrali]

Graphics don't make a game...
A simple fact that most gameing industries nowadays are tending to ignore...
So no... the game would not be any better with a small graphics update... (at least not by much)
But I would enjoy the eyecandy

[Kentilan]

what most of you seem to be wantimng is better art direction/animation/cutscenes which are not graphical attributes. Graphically, NJOD was beautiful for a wii game. Increasing this aspect would not make the game any better because niGHTS is the sort of game that thrives on gameplay design and music. NID isnt a graphically gorgeous game at all (and I can now see this on my own TV at home (woot) but it is a fantastic display of gameplay innovation and creativity. Maybe NiGHTS could have been rounder, or the levels could have had a bit more detail in some places, but it really wouldnt affect the experience, because the NiGHTS flying levels in NJOD are drop-dead gorgeous.

While it's true that NiD isn't really pretty, I think it was beautiful for its time. JoD, on the other hand, isn't.
And I do think better graphics would have enhanced the experience. While the levels were beautiful, I think the models of the main characters (especially NiGHTS) were rather ugly, and that was kinda disturbing. I always feel a bit ashamed when watching a cutscene because of that. I'm sure they could have tried harder.

take a look at the Sonic games currently, and you'll see the same kind of stuff in JoD. SEGA's by itself is too lazy to do anything good/decent/finished nowadays. now when they've got collaborators id est sonic chronicles or crush, then you'll get better graphics. so, i blame SEGA for being a bunch of lazy jerks.

Have you seen Sonic Unleashed? It's gorgeous.

[segastudioUSA]

The highpoint of the graphics were the environments, VFX, and bosses. They were absolutely beautiful. I'm still surprised at the amount of polish the bosses had.
The characters could have used a lot more polygons I'll admit. Especially with the camera close up to them in the cutscenes.
Graphics are important in immersing people into a game. It's just the question of how much graphical potential can the engine handle without screwing up the experience. As long as they find a good balance with that in mind, it should be appreciated.

[DAiLiGHT]

It would be nice if NiGHTS had better graphics. That and the jumping physics for the kids was way off. I can't tell you how many times I've accidentally jumped off of something and into oblivion because I couldn't control which way the kid jumped.

[Mysticgamer]

It would be nice if the graphics didn't look like N64 when you go to the ingame engine but to be honest I would play this game with DS graphics.

[DAiLiGHT]

I'd play this game if it had freaking Atari graphics. Because I love it so much.

[iLLViLLAiN]

It would be better looking but I'd much rather want better controls.

[CrashMan]

I think the graphics in this game are beautiful. they didn't "blow me away" but they were certainly captivating.

I don't really consider graphics in terms of "the present day." it's silly.

NiD was beautiful back then.... that doesn't mean it isn't beautiful now. thus, same goes for JoD.

do you think people look at the Mona Lisa now and say "well, it used to be beautiful... but I wish it had more CG"

[vincentdante]

The graphics were alright I thought. With the exception for the in game cutscenes it could have used some polish there me thinks.

Oh hey crashman I got some tornadoes for you

[CrashMan]

noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!! =)

[renegade_sanzo]

I was disappointed with the graphics. It felt like the Japanese re-make of NiD looked better in comparison.

I didn't like have a slight slow-down during gameplay when NiGHTS went fast on a next gen console. It felt very dated. I find the animations for Sonic Adventure 2 (Dreamcast) to be far better.

I agree with Lady Spritzy. Sega's games have been very incomplete and feel rushed.

[TheBigBadWolf]

I always thought the JoD graphics were pretty good, they did the job and they give you plenty to look at when you go back through the levels for a random fly, I havent seen any derelict cars yet though like in NiD

[Rachell]

well Im pretty sure they could have did better with the graphics, thou I highly doubt that will make the game any better

anyone here remember Sonic the Hedgehog 2006? it had beautiful graphics IMO (anyone would think that that game was some kind of Final Fantasy lol) and still, its one of the worst Sonic games ever

Have you seen Sonic Unleashed? It's gorgeous.

hedgehog engine rules, Sonic team should seriously think about use that engine in some of their non-sonic games, imagine a NiGHTS 3 with those graphics *drools*

[Innotech]

While it's true that NiD isn't really pretty, I think it was beautiful for its time. JoD, on the other hand, isn't.
And I do think better graphics would have enhanced the experience. While the levels were beautiful, I think the models of the main characters (especially NiGHTS) were rather ugly, and that was kinda disturbing. I always feel a bit ashamed when watching a cutscene because of that. I'm sure they could have tried harder.



Have you seen Sonic Unleashed? It's gorgeous.

have you PLAYED Sonic Unleashed? Its terrible.
At least, it doesnt play at all like sonic.

[Kentilan]

have you PLAYED Sonic Unleashed? Its terrible.
At least, it doesnt play at all like sonic.

Yes I've played it, and how it plays have absolutely nothing to do with the subject.

[Innotech]

Yes I've played it, and how it plays have absolutely nothing to do with the subject.

The point I was making is that prettier games do not make more playable games. NJOD is a very fun game for the most part but it wasnt reliant on technical details to do it. So my argument is that if it had prettier graphics it wouldnt necessarily be any better. Its also notl ike Sega would have spent the money necessary to make it look great in HD, so it would look the same.

[InTheNightlight]

I personally thought the JoD graphics were decent, but yeah, they could be better. Of course, it would have been released later due to the fact that they'd have to keep applying more disk space or something(I'm a n00b). And there'd be a bit of lag if all the graphics were great(again, n00b).

I think that the openings and closings should have stayed the same, the important cutscenes(NiGHTS Meets the Kids, Reala Appears 1 and NiGHTS Defeats Reala 1, Reala Appears 2, Reala in BellBridge, and the Wizeman cutscenes) should have had better graphics, and the gameplay graphics were overall decent, though the kids' movement was too......ew, to be blunt. Sometimes it looked like they were sliding along the ground while they were running.

[Kentilan]

The point I was making is that prettier games do not make more playable games.

Yes, everybody knows that. But if you look at my original post, I was just replying to someone who said that Sonic Team never makes pretty games, that's all.

Its also notl ike Sega would have spent the money necessary to make it look great in HD, so it would look the same.

I'm not sure what you mean; if JoD had been made on HD consoles, it would have obviously looked better.

[Innotech]

Yes, everybody knows that. But if you look at my original post, I was just replying to someone who said that Sonic Team never makes pretty games, that's all.


I'm not sure what you mean; if JoD had been made on HD consoles, it would have obviously looked better.

It would have looked anti aliased, but thats about it. To make it look like any other HD game would have required extra budget and time, which Sega was not keen on allowing. so I think it would have looked very similar to what it does now. Perhaps some things might have been al ittle rounded off.

[Kentilan]

It would have looked anti aliased, but thats about it. To make it look like any other HD game would have required extra budget and time, which Sega was not keen on allowing. so I think it would have looked very similar to what it does now. Perhaps some things might have been al ittle rounded off.

Still not sure what you mean
This topic, as far as I know, is about what if JoD had better graphics while staying on the Wii.
But if the game had been on HD consoles instead of the Wii (as it was initially planned), then it would have obviously looked better. They would never use the Wii graphics on HD consoles. And they would have had more development time, since they actually first worked on a HD version.
And if you mean having a HD version in addition to the Wii version, then the HD version would still look better. Making a HD version would require more time and money, yes, but if SEGA wanted to make a HD version, then they would give more time and money, else they wouldn't make a HD version in the first place.

[Innotech]

honestly, I think it wouldnt. Mainly because the game thrives on visuals as art and the original really wasnt a technical masterpiece either. Lots of colors, strange dream worlds, and lots of creatures and stuff going on. The Wii game executed this well.
The only thing that could really be improved was better CG/story and tighter controls.

[Alex Atkin UK]

I don't know if it would have sold better if still on the Wii with better graphics, but I know I would have played it more if it was on Xbox 360. Wii looks like crap on HDTV so it takes a very special game to convince me to switch it on, not least because I am hooked on the whole Xbox 360 experience, the online leaderboards, voice chat, messenger, achievements, all things which to me would have turned JoD from a game I was hugely disappointed in to something I would at least fire up once in a while between other games. Its amazing how much HD graphics and Xbox Live can make a mediocre game into something still medicore, but playable once in a while, in that gap where you are deciding which game to play next.

One big problem with the Wii is because Xbox 360 is my main gaming console it involves figured out where I left the nunchuck or the Gamecube pad because its so long since I last played, digging out the power plug, wincing at the blocky graphics, its just so much easier to just stick an Xbox game on.

All I wanted from JoD was the NiD formula and they didn't deliver IMO by a long shot. I absolutely cannot stand the "chase the key" concept, it lost the competitive element for me. I am a huge fan of exploration platform games, but that is not something I wanted in a NiGHTS game. It should be about seeing how many loops of the course you can squeeze in the remaining time, not wandering around aimlessly. JoD just seemed shallow, like they added loads of extra junk to compensate for the fact it was nowhere near as clever as the original. I get wanting to make the game bigger, NiD is kinda short once you know the lay of the levels, but it shouldn't detract from the main gameplay and from what I could tell the original NiGHTS gameplay is a small part of JoD where it should be the majority.

Now I may be wrong as I got utterly bored and gave up on JoD, perhaps I missed something awesome later in the game. But that's the point really, NiD had me addicted from the start, even when Jackle had me swearing like crazy I still went back. I am posting this hoping someone is going to tell me I made a huge mistake and must go back and play JoD right now because its AWESOME once you get past level x.

In other news though, I have my fingers crossed we might at least get a NiD port to Nintendo 3DS because I think THAT would be awesome even if it was just a port of the PS2 version.

honestly, I think it wouldnt. Mainly because the game thrives on visuals as art and the original really wasnt a technical masterpiece either. Lots of colors, strange dream worlds, and lots of creatures and stuff going on. The Wii game executed this well.
The only thing that could really be improved was better CG/story and tighter controls.

I always felt the original WAS a beautiful game for the time and that the PS2 remake was a nice update, although it did seem to alter the collision detection as cracking open those rings in Soft Museum seems to require greater accuracy now.

Granted, I am still happy to play the original with its blocky graphics, but I totally feel pretty graphics DO enhance the gameplay at least a little and possibly even more in a game such as NiGHTS with a surreal, vibrant world.

[TRiPPY]

^ You sir are already awesome *lol* Welcome to my forums XD