70 replies to this topic

[Purgatory]

That's true, he had no Ideya. That's why he steals them.

[YamiLover13]

I don't think so.

I like the yin-yang idea. But it seems to me that if that idea held with regard to Wizeman, he would need a counterpart. If Wizeman is the "yang", where's the "yin"? Where's the ruler of Nightopia and where was s/he when the 'Pians needed him/her in the last game?

I think that neither Nightopia nor Nightmare have any rulers proper. Wizeman was simply a Nightmaren who became so powerful that he took over Nightmare. He is not part of any balance -- in fact, let's not forget that he was actively working to destroy the dreams/nightmares balance in the last game.

Bottom line: The theory doesn't hold water.

What about the new "Great Mother" they are talking about? What if she is the yin? Then again she could be bad but from what I heard she has something to do with Nightopia. Lets hope it isn't a love connection like TRiPPY and Digi suggested in the podcast...

What Wizeman was orginally I do not no. Nor do I really want to rot my poor little brain about it.

To Purg: Nice pic. lol

To Sairus: I am glad I haven't been remembering my dreams latly. Otherwise I might actually see that thing...(I think of nothing but video games most of the time. Therfore I dream about them most of the time. I really gotta fix my brain...)

[Misaki-chan]

That line would lead me to believe that Wizeman was a Dreamer who's Ideya had been stolen... now he's trying to steal Ideya off others.
What if Wizeman is a semi-eternal being who steals Ideya, but then the people he steals Ideya off become the next Wizeman after the original is defeated... until he steals Ideya and is in turn defeated... a self substaniating villain?

They've never really said that Wizeman is always the same being. Or maybe another villain similar to Wizeman will be in the new game? Hm...

Your statement got me thinking
What if the Kids are Wizeman's counterparts?

I think the game suggests that through your dreams you can conquer your fears, nightmares and become the master of your dreams. I think this thought creates a wonderful balance to the game.

I think she's got a good point. If Wizeman was originally a "Visitor" or dreamer without Ideya, then the kids having all five Ideya would suggest them as a perfect counterpart. Maybe it's not about who is the ultimate power in Nightopia, but the balance between opposite minds. And the kids did defeat Wizeman in the last game, with NiGHTS' help. Maybe that combination was needed because Wizeman had no counterpart to balance him out.

[Sairus]

Kind of doubt that Wizala (Oh, look, I invented a new name!) would look like that in the final cut... but it's still a possibility.

Man, if he actually makes it into the game in any shape or form I would laugh my ass off! XD If they called him Wizla or Wizala I would very probably die from laughter XD

I think she's got a good point. If Wizeman was originally a "Visitor" or dreamer without Ideya, then the kids having all five Ideya would suggest them as a perfect counterpart. Maybe it's not about who is the ultimate power in Nightopia, but the balance between opposite minds. And the kids did defeat Wizeman in the last game, with NiGHTS' help. Maybe that combination was needed because Wizeman had no counterpart to balance him out.

But defeating Wizeman and removing him from the equation unbalances it all over again, except now the children are distorting things... that would actually be a nice way to tie Reala back in. He is the answer to them.
In fact... the game ending with Reala getting an Ideya of his own... hmm.... XD

[Misaki-chan]

But defeating Wizeman and removing him from the equation unbalances it all over again, except now the children are distorting things...

That's why I said "defeat", not "destroy". My first post here was to say that I didn't think Wizeman COULD be killed. They just had to fight him because he was trying to take too much power.

I wouldn't be surprised if whatever Sega comes up with for the new game (explaining Wizeman and stuff) is completely different from everything we all think is possible.

[Sairus]

Ahhh~ My mistake, Sai gets ya now! XD

Whatever SEGA come up with will probably involve some sort of Dream Control using the power of Ideya, which will then allow NiGHTS to travel through time for some reason.

[Curiosity Inc.]

First off, I take issue with the idea that Wizeman is an ordinary Dreamer. If that's true, why doesn't he look more humanoid, like Claris and Elliott? Also, the manual seems to be implying that Wizeman could build an army, take over Nightopia, witness the entire original game and confront the kids, all in one night. That seems way too far-fetched to me.

Also, YamiLover13, if the "Great Mother" is the ruler of Nightopia to counter Wizeman, then where was she in the last game? Why was she never mentioned? Why did she apparently fail to act when Wizeman was taking over her domain?

No, I believe that Nightopia and Nightmare are both leaderless by design. Wizeman asserted himself as ruler of Nightmare and very nearly destroyed the dreams/nightmares balance.

But what is Wizeman exactly? The Japanese manual says he's a Dreamer, but as I said previously, that doesn't make sense.

After some thought, I've come up with a new theory: Wizeman is not dreaming under normal circumstances. Suppose Wizeman got himself into a coma or something. He started Dreaming while his body and soul were damaged. That would explain his lack of Ideya, his abnormal appearance and his extended amount of time to assert his dominance. It might also explain that whole "pure evil" thing.

Comments?

[Inubu]

I really don't think so,I wish but not likley.I thought Reala was gonna be the last boss this time.You never know

[Miss Rae]

...After some thought, I've come up with a new theory: Wizeman is not dreaming under normal circumstances. Suppose Wizeman got himself into a coma or something. He started Dreaming while his body and soul were damaged. That would explain his lack of Ideya, his abnormal appearance and his extended amount of time to assert his dominance. It might also explain that whole "pure evil" thing.

Comments?

That was actually what I was thinking right there when I came up with my theory.
(See previous posts for my theory.)

[Misaki-chan]

Missy's right. That doesn't sound too different from what we were saying. The Japanese manual only says that he was a Visitor. It doesn't say under what circumstances.

In fact, everything you said fits pretty well into what I think. But why say that things don't make sense, and then explain how they could?

I just got a little confused when I read the post the first time. Could just be me.

[YamiLover13]

Also, YamiLover13, if the "Great Mother" is the ruler of Nightopia to counter Wizeman, then where was she in the last game? Why was she never mentioned? Why did she apparently fail to act when Wizeman was taking over her domain?

After some thought, I've come up with a new theory: Wizeman is not dreaming under normal circumstances. Suppose Wizeman got himself into a coma or something. He started Dreaming while his body and soul were damaged. That would explain his lack of Ideya, his abnormal appearance and his extended amount of time to assert his dominance. It might also explain that whole "pure evil" thing.

Comments?

Because she was tired and thought NiGHTS could handle it. I don't know! Everything is theory here. Nothing is for certain, and with the new game who knows what is going to happen. Don't forget that they talked about the new game being a rewrite. But we are not certain.

As for the other theory, yes it sounds plausable. It makes sense to me. Who knows though. Maybe its all translation gone wrong. We may never know...

[Nickbot]

Personally I wouldn't mind seeing Wizeman in the game. Be it as the main boss or some sort of cut scene like appeal. I am and always will be a fan for the big man of Nightmare. So yeah, that's all I really gotta say for now. Got work in the morning so I'll be sure to put something more knowledgeable in tomorrow.

[Curiosity Inc.]

In fact, everything you said fits pretty well into what I think. But why say that things don't make sense, and then explain how they could?

I meant to say that it doesn't make sense how Wizeman couldn't be a Dreamer like Claris and Elliott. The two "main Dreamers" have Ideya, human shapes, and they stay in Nightopia for only one night at a time.

Wizeman somehow defied all three of those traits, so it doesn't make sense that Wizeman should be lumped into a category of Dreamers with Elliott and Claris. Something else is going on with him, which led me to my theory.

[Misaki-chan]

That fits, I guess. It would explain why it took both Claris and Elliot, with NiGHTS' help, to take Wizeman down.

[Sairus]

But the main difference between Claris, Elliot and Wizeman is that at the end of each night, the children got their Ideya back.
Devoid of Ideya, who's to say a person could ever wake up?
Also, the kids are clearly able to be affected by Dreams as they can fly at the end of the game, is it such a stretch to say that their bodies could change aswell? Imagine a child, his soul stolen and trapped in an unending Nightmare... that could do some serious mental scarring. Dreams are generated by our mental energy, affecting that energy will affect the dreamer.

I would assume it's safe to assume that Wizeman was not a standard Nightmare that gained power though, as he was able to appear to both children, something no one but NiGHTS (and thus probably Reala... maybe Jackle) and Wizeman were able to do.

[YamiLover13]

Or maybe when they said that Wizeman was deprived of ideya, they were trying to say that he didn't have any and wanted some. He needed the ideya to take over the dream realm, but Nightmarens or nightmare itself doesn't have that. Therefore, he needed some. It doesn't mean he was a dreamer. But this is coming from someone who thinks of Wizeman as Nightmare itself.

This doesn't mean that your idea is wrong. In fact your idea makes a little sense if he was once a dreamer. I just wanted to point out that the translation is a little more ambiguous then it seems.

--Edit--
I took out the first part of the post due to the fact that I confused myself...

[Misaki-chan]

This is why I hate what happens with Japanese and American storylines sometimes. Nobody really knows anything because it's all too vague.

Maybe when Journey of Dreams comes, they'll be a lot clearer on these kinds of things.

[Sairus]

Maybe when Journey of Dreams comes, they'll be a lot clearer on these kinds of things.

This is why NiGHTS has been so succesful in the fanbase in my personal opinion. The story is vague enough to let anyone come up with their own takes on it with ease.

[gsk]

Well, it been confirmed that its not quite a sequal, so who knows what they could do with Wizeman; still the boss, ignore, rewrite, secret boss etc.

I'd quite like to see him again, underrated design imo.

[Dark Magician]

I would like for Wizeman to come back... sort of like a Sigma from MegaMan X deal. Wizeman is possibly symbolized as fear itself, thus he's never going to fully disappear as long as people have something to be afraid of. Just because he no longer has power over Claris and Elliot doesn't mean he can't gain power from someone else.

If he's really a dreamer, however, everything I said goes out the window.

[Ten]

Likely going to repeat things, but let's think about this. Their names have something to do with their appearance and nature, right? Puffy is rotund, Jackle uses cards ("Jack"), Clawz is a cat, GillWing is a dragon with a few fish-like components, Gulpo is a fish, Reala is, well as my argument went in another thread, "reality"-related, and NiGHTS is... well, NiGHTS. xD So, then, couldn't Wizeman have some significance to his name?

Wizeman. Wiseman. A man who is wise and turned to because of his wisdom. If he is a "Visitor" and created the Nightmaren, then it's not too much of a stretch to say that it is his MIND that provided the ability to change and create the way he did.

Also, as for the Mares thing: People have more than one dream a night; it's not too much to think that all of the Mares occurred in a single night by Waking standards. I can't remember the timeline of it all, so that might be off.

...and the backspace button in my brain just kicked in and I can't remember what I was gonna say, now. >>;

[Curiosity Inc.]

Well, the new Nintendo Power article confirmed that Wizeman will be returning.

So, with that issue settled, now what?

[Ten]

Hmm... Nature of the beast?

[Scion]

So Wizeman has returned....i wonder will more about him will be revealed

[nightdreamer]

Well according to the Nintendo Power article Wizeman is comming back. As to if it's just cutscean, main boss or what is yet to be seen. I personally think that he's going to be the main boss again, which means the final boss will be him most likely with new tricks ready to be used on NiGHTS.

[Louis]

- You'll beat Reala, then there'll be an explosion.

- Crush 40 will play and you'll fight Wizeman in space.

- NiGHTS and Reala will team up.

It came before me in a dream.

[DMN]

- You'll beat Reala, then there'll be an explosion.

- Crush 40 will play and you'll fight Wizeman in space.

- NiGHTS and Reala will team up.

It came before me in a dream.

Oh noes.
Reala turn good? Reality's gonna fall apart at the seams!

[Louis]

Duh, it'll be like SA 2, Reala will show signs of good, but for his own reasons, he'll fall and burn up in the earths atmosphere and Claris will cry while Puffy gives a lectre about looking up to Wizeman as a kid as the credits role.

Then next game Reala, Gulpo and Gillwing will be an evil team out to save the world.

Duh.

[Q-Lok]

Duh, it'll be like SA 2, Reala will show signs of good, but for his own reasons, he'll fall and burn up in the earths atmosphere and Claris will cry while Puffy gives a lectre about looking up to Wizeman as a kid as the credits role.

Then next game Reala, Gulpo and Gillwing will be an evil team out to save the world.

Duh.

Oh, sweet heavens, NO! XDXD That would be the WORST THING EVER! What would that make the rest of them? NiGHTS, Claris, and Elliot would be Team Sonic; the Chaotix would be replaced by maybe Jackle, Clawz, and a Gao (Charmy); I suppose this would leave a bunch of pians and mepians to form Team Rose (one of them would be hideously overweight). They would all be trying to stop Wizeman, Puffy, and Metal NiGHTS from taking over the world or some such. HURTING, IT DOES.

[Chan Kaylore]

That...that was horrible...

[Tangocat777]

he's confirmed to come back.

Oh, sweet heavens, NO! XDXD That would be the WORST THING EVER! What would that make the rest of them? NiGHTS, Claris, and Elliot would be Team Sonic; the Chaotix would be replaced by maybe Jackle, Clawz, and a Gao (Charmy); I suppose this would leave a bunch of pians and mepians to form Team Rose (one of them would be hideously overweight). They would all be trying to stop Wizeman, Puffy, and Metal NiGHTS from taking over the world or some such. HURTING, IT DOES.

lol