11 replies to this topic

[Meggiemaccat]

I know, I know, I don't have the right perspective to be spouting this off since I've never played the game even once, and have only played Wii Bowling and Golf once, but I thought I'd put this out there (in fact, I'm not entirely sure it's in the right forum, but since I'm talking about JoD specifically I thought it the best board to stick it in).

I think the problem with the Wiimote control system is that it inherently lacks a perception all normal game controllers have; depth perception.

With the Wiimote - aside from the sports games where it's programmed to sense when you're swinging the Wiimote - can only control movement up, down, and across the screen, not further into or closer out of the screen. I'm sure it's not the only problem with it, but I can see this being a bit of a disconcerting problem when playing a game that has the property of depth into the screen as well as length and width across it. In other words, if the camera angle's not carefully maneuvered into the correct position (which is probably the reason for the camera-angle changes already existing in the game), certain maneuvers prove extremely difficult to perform, if not entirely impossible. Of the game footage I've allowed myself to view thus far, the stage at which this problem seems most prevalent is in the battle against Girania, where the player would greatly benefit from the depth perception of a classic controller so they can more effectively monopolize on the time Girania spends as that cloud of techni-colored bubbles (a.k.a., of all the levels to try using the Wiimote period, I don't recommend it during Girania's fight).

I see two ways of fixing this:

1) Give a way for people to tell the character being played at the moment to go further into/come further out of the screen. This... I can see being extremely difficult to do fluidly; you may as well just stick with the Wiimote and Nunchucks unless you have time to test every strategy for making the Wiimote completely independent on the topic of depth perception.

2) As I've said in my explanation - take great care in how the camera angles are placed. This isn't going to fix everything, but it's easier to pull off if you're careful.

Yes, I know I'm an idiot and that this thread will most likely be locked/deleted for pointlessness, but I didn't want to not say anything in case it wasn't pointless, since I tend to think most things I want to say are pointless, anyway. ^^;;;; And NOW I'm gonna go to bed; I considered this too important to risk forgetting by morning. Although... I'm either going to kick myself for this, restate things so they're clearer, or... something. XPPPPP *flops over*

[viperxmns]

On a related note, I was talking with member kurosen about Wiimote use the other day, he was saying how they didn't use the accelerometer for JoD and should have, I mean I initially figured maybe they'd anchor NiGHTS's body to the movement rather than have a cursor thing.. still wondering how well it would work

I'll also point out in the game Zack & Wiki they use depth perception for movements like using a saw n stuff

[TRAViS]

It's amazing...for how technologically sophisticated the wii remote is, they hardly capitalized on it at all with JoD.

The Wii Remote DOES in fact have depth-perception. The infrared sensor on the front of the remote picks up the two IR points from the sensor bar on your TV. If the remote is close to the screen, the points appear far apart to the sensor. If it's far, they appear very close. Using the estimated distance between them, any developer could take advantage of that (and some have). Of course, it doesn't work if the sensor isn't pointed anywhere near the TV. The remote's also got accelerometers and gyroscopes for everything else a developer could ever want to integrate motion controls.

Since the game's initial pitch, one of the big things that was used over and over again marketing this thing was the "heightened sense of gliding, spiraling, and looping" brought forth by the Wii Remote. Instead we get something no more complicated than the flash game they just put up on the site, only more horribly broken. In an attempt to make the "point radius" larger they read the gyroscopes too, which is so broken...anyway my point is they really dropped the ball and should've just foregone a Wii remote control option altogether. I don't even understand how motion controls would have worked in a NiGHTS game that isn't done from a behind-NiGHTS or first-person view. THAT would have been fun; using the remote and nunchuck to guide yourself through the air and make fine adjustments as if you had your hands extended as if you were flying. But of course, it wouldn't really have been a NiGHTS game (not that JoD was much of one either...as it plainly suffered from what I call Sonic Syndrome...).

JoD would've worked fantastically on the DS with the point-ahead kind of control scheme. After all, it's all the system really has going for it. But at the very least the wii remote control scheme felt so tacked-on it was as if they only considered it during the last week or so of development just to be like "oops, we forgot something." I'm disappointed that there isn't really a new way to play a classic game formula, but I think it's probably better that way. Grew up on the analog stick, and nothin's gonna change that.

/rant

[TRiPPY]

not further into or closer out of the screen.

Yeah it does have depth perception (which completely amazed me) as it shows in Wario Smooth Moves... even the slightest turn of the mote is picked up. As someone said earlier they just didn't use it with JoD... and tbh i think if they'd stuck depth in there too it would have just added to the cluttered control system in JoD. It felt like the game was a testing ground for bad controls sometimes :/ Someone really had to be taking the P with the mindsight control system, so pointless.

[Meggiemaccat]

Ah, yeah, another instance where my lack of knowledge makes me wrong. ..... But at least it's somewhat correct in relation to this game. ^^;;;; *kicks self, as she said she'd do yesterday* I also forgot to make this a little more open for discussion, like asking people 'what do you think?', but I'm glad people have actually replied to this; I'm a bit more educated now. XDDD

Well... I believe it was one of the first things they did, but their main struggle with it was that this is a new piece of technology, and they're not even the ones who made it, so they have even less experience with it than Nintendo and have a better time coding for the more Classic controls (hence why that particular control system works best). I do agree with everyone that, if they're not going to take the time to test the stuff out and fix it until it's as good as they can possibly get it, they should've abandoned coding for the Wiimote alone, and with their time constraints, they simply did not have this time. Hindsight's 20/20, but they really should've been testing this and, at the very least when they found out it was so difficult, changed Owl's text so it's not blatantly advertising the Wiimote-solo control system. As I've said elsewhere, they either needed help from Nintendo coders, more time to test things, or even both.

A.k.a. they can do this, but they didn't this time around. Perhaps with another chance they might take the time needed to get it right.

[phosphorus]

it needs a light gun game style calibration, so the mindsight is actually on the part of the screen you are aiming at.

[DAiLiGHT]

Why does the Wiimote suck?

Paddle ball.

Yep. Paddle ball. All of life's questions can be answered with two simple words.

Paddle ball.

[Meggiemaccat]

What in the world does paddle ball have to do with the Wiimote??? Oo;;;

[DAiLiGHT]

Everything. Paddle ball is God.

Paddle ball is people! PADDLE BALL IS PEOPLE!!!!!111onetwothree!!!!!!!seven!!!!!!!!1111

[^_^ Go Dreamer]

Lol XD

they really should've been testing this and, at the very least when they found out it was so difficult, changed Owl's text so it's not blatantly advertising the Wiimote-solo control system. As I've said elsewhere, they either needed help from Nintendo coders, more time to test things, or even both.

I'm not too good with technical stuff, but I totally agree! More time was needed in the development of the Wiimote control for JoD.
I think it was Viperxmns who mention something about achoring NiGHTS body to the movement rather than the cursor,
that probably would have made it alot easier, cause trying to make NiGHTS do a paraloop with the Wiimote using the cursor
is horrific! O_o; And like Meggiemaccat said, they should have changed owls text that metioned the wiimote solo control if they knew
it would be difficult to use. *apologizes for not making sence*

[trueBLUE]

Having had the Wii since launch, the Wiimote has VERY GOOD depth perception. The problem with JoD was that the wiimote option is buggy and feels tacked on to give it a "Wii" feeling.

BTW, Zack and Wiki. Buy it, love it. It's like NiGHTS, with pirates... ok, bad example, but pirates. Arr. ;F

[Uly'aoth]

If it weren't for the fact they added more control options (like the nunchuck and the classic controller) NiGHTS: JoD would have been downright irritating to control all the while still a good looking game